Engine building for dummies

Post by **phyler** » Sun Dec 19, 2021 7:49 pm

First, I've never fully rebuilt an engine so I'm hoping I can get a lot of wisdom from the folks here. Closest I've come is I've done the top-end of a 72 Triumph Motorcycle.

I'm going to put out my goals and what I've acquired over the years. What I'm hoping to gain is the knowledge of what questions to ask and what I might be missing.

For those who don't know, I've been rebuilding my Bronco for the past 5 years or so. It has 3.5" lift, with a 1" body lift and 33x10.50 tires. The goal is to be able to drive it around and mild wheeling (really, I jsut don't want to smash any of the metal I've replaced).

I have the following:

351w out of a 97 F-250
Lighting Lower
Explorer Upper (out of a early 97 Explorer)
GT40 Heads
EFI Guy Harness (from whenever we all did them at JGZ's place in Lakewood, was that 6 years ago now?)
Explorer Front Dress

The 351w needs to be rebuilt (or at least, since it's out and been sitting on a stand for 5+ years, might as well). After talking with Garry, I will be getting the Comp Cam 35-349-8. I know I need to get the upgraded valve springs (I need to call Comp Cam to find out what part number it is for the springs).

I will have the ZF5 behind it with the Dana 20. Going with 4.56 gears. Already have the gears and adapter for the ZF/D20. I'll have to figure out the exhaust thing after getting this in. I don't have headers now so I'm thinking it will be a full package of headers and exhaust, etc.

So, my main questions are regarding to taking the block to a machine shop. I just don't know what questions I should be asking them. I'm not needing a learning experience of assembing the engine at this point unless it saves a significant amount of money. I am planning since I need to replace the valve springs to have the heads done as part of this. Obivoulsy just want to bore it out as little as needed.

Also, any recommendations for a shop? I know @landshark recommended Greely Machine (I think that was it) and a few guys have used Western Machine. My main concern is just not knowing enough.

So, what questions should I ask? What have I probably not thought of? And yes, this would probably be a better convo over pizza and beer in the garage than here.

Thanks!

Post by **Eck** » Sun Dec 19, 2021 9:17 pm

This is basically the exact setup that I have. Feel free to give me a call if you want to chat through it. From what I remember- assembling it yourself saves a decent amount of money and isnΓÇÖt all that difficult. I had my machine work done at MPG in Englewood. I know other guys in the club have taken theirs to him as well.

IΓÇÖve got a couple of good engine build books youΓÇÖre welcome to borrow.

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Post by **BOBS 2 68S** » Mon Dec 20, 2021 4:59 am

The book "Rebuilding The Small Block Ford" is a real help. I would start by pulling the heads. Then measure the cylinder bores. I have ID mics and dial bore gages to check bore size. Then you will know how much ware is in the cylinders and what size it will need to be bored. You might want to talk to the machine shop and ask what they will need you to bring. If you replace the pistons they will need to be balanced. Also the crank might need reground witch means under sized bearings. From what I have been reading parts are hard to find now. The book "Rebuilding The Small Block Ford" is a real help.
I used Western on my last heads. I have also used Ridge Reamer in Arvada on other builds.

Post by **phyler** » Mon Dec 20, 2021 8:40 am

Eck wrote:This is basically the exact setup that I have. Feel free to give me a call if you want to chat through it. From what I remember- assembling it yourself saves a decent amount of money and isnΓÇÖt all that difficult. I had my machine work done at MPG in Englewood. I know other guys in the club have taken theirs to him as well.

IΓÇÖve got a couple of good engine build books youΓÇÖre welcome to borrow.

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I'll give you a buzz. I need to get your brake stuff back anyway.

BOBS 2 68S wrote:The book "Rebuilding The Small Block Ford" is a real help. I would start by pulling the heads. Then measure the cylinder bores. I have ID mics and dial bore gages to check bore size. Then you will know how much ware is in the cylinders and what size it will need to be bored. You might want to talk to the machine shop and ask what they will need you to bring. If you replace the pistons they will need to be balanced. Also the crank might need reground witch means under sized bearings. From what I have been reading parts are hard to find now. The book "Rebuilding The Small Block Ford" is a real help.
I used Western on my last heads. I have also used Ridge Reamer in Arvada on other builds.

Yeah, I have the heads off as the engine originally came with E7 heads. I don't have the gauges to do anything and it feels like this is a one-time only tool so I'm reluctant to purchase any. I can still see the cross-hatching but there is a lip at the top of the cylinders for sure so that tells me it's probably getting bored. Given that it's a motor out of a 97, I'm thinking it should be straight forward.

Post by **Justin** » Tue Dec 21, 2021 11:25 pm

I used MPG heads for my block and was not happy. Communication was poor and the job took several months longer than quoted. He also wasn't great about talking through any options.

Today different experience with Western when they did my heads. Great to work with, fast, and really seemed to know their stuff. I was very happy with the finished product as well.

I'll second "Rebuilding your small block ford". It got me through my build and the engine hasn't broken....yet. It saved me $400-ish for the cost of the build, but I mostly did it myself because I wanted the experience of doing it. Firing it the first time was nerve wracking, but so far I'm glad I did.

Glad to talk through my build and experience with it.
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Post by **BOBS 2 68S** » Wed Dec 22, 2021 8:41 am

If you want I can stop by and measure the cylinders

Post by **BroncoRaider** » Wed Dec 22, 2021 10:47 am

I used MPG for my machine work too. Communication and timeliness weΓÇÖre issues for me as well. The work seemed good, and IΓÇÖm sure he knows what heΓÇÖs doing, but as a first timer, it left something to be desired.

Post by **phyler** » Wed Dec 22, 2021 5:37 pm

BOBS 2 68S wrote:If you want I can stop by and measure the cylinders

That'd be awesome! I'm in Erie. I'm around most days as I work from home. I'll message you my contact info.

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Post by **kbank6** » Fri Dec 24, 2021 9:26 am

Got mine back from Greeley Automotive Machine a month or so ago and very happy with the results. It's the same engine build your doing but had to get cylinders machined out 20 over. Heads were also GT40's and I supplied the spring kit from Alex Parts.

Post by **Kinder** » Fri Dec 24, 2021 12:22 pm

IΓÇÖve had two motors go through Western in the last 1-3 years and so far IΓÇÖve been happy.

The ΓÇÿ95 roller 351w that is in TFB is essentially your build (and what a lot of local folks are running) with the same recommended cam and using the ΓÇÿ96 GT heads (upgraded springs and drilled for 351 head bolts). It has the Explorer EFI modded by EFI Guy for induction. I think weΓÇÖve got 35k on that setup and itΓÇÖs been problem free. Some folks did have a couple of problems with a bad batch of roller lifters, but so far weΓÇÖve lucked out, I think we used Comp or Crane.

If I were to build the same motor today I think IΓÇÖd look harder at aftermarket heads. The cost to rebuild a GT40 head to work in this application doesnΓÇÖt really seem to be worth it.

We did the assembly ourselves, IΓÇÖm not sure how much money it saved, but I really like putting it all together. It allowed me to check the specs and make some final decisions on upgraded fasteners.

IΓÇÖd recommend you do some measurements on the combination of parts youΓÇÖd like to finish with to get a good idea of final compression ratio. By mixing the 351 block, different year pistons and explorer heads you could end up with a lower compression motor. A change of pistons could bring the compression back or machine the block / heads to get compression back.

Post by **pgilbeau** » Sat Dec 25, 2021 12:57 pm

Don't want to hijack the thread but figured this might be a relevant question. What is everyone using for an oil pan? Mine 351W is out of a '95 F150 and the dip stick passes through the block.

Post by **Justin** » Sat Dec 25, 2021 1:14 pm

I used the factory pan that came on mine.

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Post by **phyler** » Sat Dec 25, 2021 3:18 pm

kbank6 wrote:Got mine back from Greeley Automotive Machine a month or so ago and very happy with the results. It's the same engine build your doing but had to get cylinders machined out 20 over. Heads were also GT40's and I supplied the spring kit from Alex Parts.

Do you have a part number?

Kinder wrote:IΓÇÖve had two motors go through Western in the last 1-3 years and so far IΓÇÖve been happy.

The ΓÇÿ95 roller 351w that is in TFB is essentially your build (and what a lot of local folks are running) with the same recommended cam and using the ΓÇÿ96 GT heads (upgraded springs and drilled for 351 head bolts). It has the Explorer EFI modded by EFI Guy for induction. I think weΓÇÖve got 35k on that setup and itΓÇÖs been problem free. Some folks did have a couple of problems with a bad batch of roller lifters, but so far weΓÇÖve lucked out, I think we used Comp or Crane.

If I were to build the same motor today I think IΓÇÖd look harder at aftermarket heads. The cost to rebuild a GT40 head to work in this application doesnΓÇÖt really seem to be worth it.

We did the assembly ourselves, IΓÇÖm not sure how much money it saved, but I really like putting it all together. It allowed me to check the specs and make some final decisions on upgraded fasteners.

IΓÇÖd recommend you do some measurements on the combination of parts youΓÇÖd like to finish with to get a good idea of final compression ratio. By mixing the 351 block, different year pistons and explorer heads you could end up with a lower compression motor. A change of pistons could bring the compression back or machine the block / heads to get compression back.

The lower compression is one area that concerns me and I want to make sure I can get it bumped up a bit. The GT40 heads have a big combustion chamber which lowers the compression. My plan is to have them machined a bit along with new pistons to raise the compression a bit. I'd like to get to 8.5 or 9:1 ideally. That said, this is one area I need coaching on. Specifically, did folks source their own pistons, etc. or did you let the machine shop supply those? Since this isn't a race motor, I'm not sure I need high-end, super name brand type stuff though I don't want junk.

I'm not against putting the motor together myself. I think that would be a fun way to engage with my two boys as well to let them see how an engine goes together. I'm sure I will be sweating like @justin was when I first start it if I do go this route.

pgilbeau wrote:Don't want to hijack the thread but figured this might be a relevant question. What is everyone using for an oil pan? Mine 351W is out of a '95 F150 and the dip stick passes through the block.

I have the pan from the 97 F-250 and was planning to use it. Not sure if it will work or not but I think it will.

Post by **kbank6** » Mon Dec 27, 2021 8:29 pm

I'll look for it. The site shows several kits for the GT40's that are lift dependent.

Post by **Justin** » Mon Dec 27, 2021 8:33 pm

I used a kit supplied by the shop and was happy with it. I did have a little taken off my GT40s, and wound up with slightly high compression. It'll detonate occasionally if I don't run 87 octane.

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Post by **Eck** » Mon Dec 27, 2021 9:03 pm

FWIW-- I used Alex's Parts -- SB Ford, GT40 Drop In Valve Springs Kit, Hyd Roller .580" Lift (part #VSK7k48). Went to the wesbsite and could not find it though so I am not sure if he doesn't make it anymore or what.

I have the same cam shaft you mentioned above.
Lunati 72335-16 Lifters

Post by **landshark** » Fri Jan 07, 2022 12:13 pm

I have had three engines built by Greeley Machine, highly recommend them if you decide to have any engine work done. Using the canton pan on both of my 351w -> 408 strokers.

Post by **phyler** » Sun Nov 13, 2022 3:59 pm

Well, good news for me! Bob came by and we measured the bores. Only .002-.003 worth of wear on the block. So, the new plan is to just re-ring it (since I have it apart anyway), replace bearings, swap cam and send it.

For rings, bearings, anything special? Or should I just grab something like this from Summit? https://www.summitracing.com/parts/slp-e-251k Plan is to order the cam from Summit as well unless someone has a suggestion for a better spot.

Will probably dig into this more in the Jan/Feb/March time frame depending on work schedule. Will do it after I get the transmission swap done (you can read up on that in the Project Downward Spiral thread).

www.ColoradoClassicBroncos.com