Airbur's 427W Build Thread

[airbur]

Update...I installed one of the pistons to check clearance and we're still a no-go. Cam still hits the side of the rod. So instead of trucking them up to SpitFire again I decided to expand my tool collection and get a bench grinder and some layout dye. If I'm able to clearance the rods enough I'll take everything in to have it rebalanced again.

[Viperwolf1]

I'm not diggin the weakening of the bolts.

[airbur]

Yea....me either.

[airbur]

Here's a pic of the rod I tested. You can see right where the cam hits the side of the bolt head. It's hard to see in the pic but there are 3 spots where the dye is removed....each where I had the cam at different angles.

[Booger]

Almost better to change cams. If you lose much strength in the bottom end it could get a whole lot more expensive than replacing the cam. My $0.025

[airbur]

Almost better to change cams. If you lose much strength in the bottom end it could get a whole lot more expensive than replacing the cam. My $0.025

True...but the Cam guy says that's the last thing I want to do....due to the fact that the small base circle cams have much less strength than the regular ones. I've also read that they are noisy and just all around not a good idea. Not to mention, I don't think he'd let me return this custom cam I have and credit me for a new one:(

[ZOSO]

Are you gonna be reving this thing to 5000+ rpm all the time? Most likely not right? so I'd change cams. for what your gonna be using this for it wont be a problem. And since its a hyd. roller cam and Im sure your gonna be running roller rockers it's gonna be noisey either way. Roller rockers clatter no matter what. A new cam is cheaper insurance than a new block and rotating assembly when one of those bolts break and send a rod out the side of the block. Just my few pennys.


And just what Dan said. When I built my 460 I put in a windage tray. I left just over a 1/4" clearance between the tray and rod bolts. When ever I would rev it up above 2800-3000 the rods would hit the tray. So things do move and stretch. I'd call CHP and ask them to send out the new rods also.

[ZOSO]

Also a lot of the stress on the cam is making sure you have the correct valve springs. the correct height and seat pressure are very important. That will play a lot on the stress to the cam. I would hope they included what the spring specs need to be. Some springs may need to be shimmed and some may not.

[airbur]

You also have to remember when you wind that bitch up things will stretch some so plan for some extra clearance once the parts don't touch with compound. It will be an expensive learning experience in a hurry if things are touching or parts are weak.

Yea....there is that also. The guys at CHP have been cool but I'm sure I'm on their "oh that guy" list now as it's hard to get a hold of them.

If I can get them to send me the other rods for the cost difference between the two (probably around $250) I'll do that and test fit them. If there is still an issue (almost sure there will be) I'll have to go with the smaller cam.

CamResearch did indeed include the spring specs.

[airbur]

I just installed the timing chain set and the one piston I know was hitting....gave it a rotation and no hits:) From what I understand, as long as the clearances are good during rotation, I'm good. From what I can feel, I think there is about 1/4" of space between the rod bolt and the cam lobe now:) I'll install the rest of the pistons again tonight and see how it goes.

[Rox Crusher]

You have nerves of steel.

I am nervous for you.

[airbur]

I installed a few more and the clearance is much less....more like around .030. I need at least .050 to feel safe. I'll need to grind each rod and check them over and over one by one until all are at least .050.

[Booger]

You checking the clearance with some modeling clay or something?

[airbur]

You checking the clearance with some modeling clay or something?

I'm actually using a feeler gauge as I'm able to get my hand down in there just far enough.

[airbur]

Started working on it again last night and realized the little 4' old florescent fixture in my garage was just not cutting it. Installed two 8' T8 fixtures from Home Depot....man.....litterally like night and day.

[airbur]

Today the grinder arrived so I got to work on one of the rods. After fitting it, removing it, grinding it, fitting it, etc etc etc...about 4 times, I finally got the clearance to .050. I feel that I had to remove too much material and don't want to use them in the engine. Took a couple of pics and sent them to Eric at CHP hoping that he'll understand and at least give me a discount on a new set of I beams that take into account stroker clearances.

On a happy note I have a sweet-ass grinder now:)

[airbur]

The grinder.....

[Shawns Fords]

I have never built any HP type of engine before, only overhauls. I would not want to put that connecting rod in my engine. You took a lot of the head of the bolt mass away and I am sure it lost a shitload of clamping force. Another idea may be some ARP studs made for this?

[ZOSO]

atleast if they upgrade you to the H-beam rods they take bolts through the cap and into the rods. Makes for clearancing them a little easier. No bolt heads in the way. Like Shawn said I wouldnt run those. Once this issue came up I woulda switched cams long ago and been done with it. It's not a high compression, high reving, race motor so a small base circle cam should be fine.

[airbur]

Yea....I'm learning what I "should" have done almost every day now:) But I don't mind....I knew I'd hit a lot of snags along the way.

The rods I want use that type of bolt but are actually lightweight I-Beams. The reason is because these are the exact same weight as the rods I have now. H-Beams are quite heavier.

[ZOSO]

I see. Those would work pretty good at what you need.

[Booger]

Yea....I'm learning what I "should" have done almost every day now:) But I don't mind....I knew I'd hit a lot of snags along the way.

The rods I want use that type of bolt but are actually lightweight I-Beams. The reason is because these are the exact same weight as the rods I have now. H-Beams are quite heavier.

Learning can be expensive fun. I think your heading the right direction though. Now get this thing done so we can hear it run. Might have to rebuild my 351 for a few more horsepower after I hear this thing.

[nvrstuk]

I'm a newbie (on this list) and have been following this thread for quite a while. Looking good. You are gonna love the torque of this monster when you're done building it... torque up the ... : )

Go with the lt wt cap screw style rods-don't go with small base circle cam you w i l l get to much flex in your cam. Keep it up, excellent write up and excellent job building your engine!


Thanks for letting a "non-Colorado) Bronco owner on your list. : ) Wheeled in your State many times... hope to get back again soon.

[airbur]

I'm a newbie (on this list) and have been following this thread for quite a while. Looking good. You are gonna love the torque of this monster when you're done building it... torque up the ... : )

Go with the lt wt cap screw style rods-don't go with small base circle cam you w i l l get to much flex in your cam. Keep it up, excellent write up and excellent job building your engine!

Thanks for letting a "non-Colorado) Bronco owner on your list. : ) Wheeled in your State many times... hope to get back again soon.

Welcome to the forum! Where are you located? Thank you for the props. I definitely agree with you on the cam....I never planned on going with the small base-circle unit for the reason you mentioned among others. I guess it's good that I spent the $ to have a custom one built....made me look at other ways to correct the clearance issue:)

[nvrstuk]

Thanks! I live in the middle of Washington State, base of the Cascade Mtns.

I've been collecting parts for my 427 build for several years. Hope to build and install late this winter.

Have you decided on which EFI intake you're going to use?

[Justin]

nvr, where are you exactly? I grew up in Bothell and then moved to Bellingham.

[airbur]

Have you decided on which EFI intake you're going to use?

Most likely the TrickFlow upper and lower. All the GT40 stuff just doesn't flow enough for this thing.

[nvrstuk]

Bothell? Seriously? : ) I used to harass that area regularly on weekends... ha I was born and raised in Edmonds...back when it was a po-dunk town and gas was cheap!

So you live in CO now after moving down that way from B-ham?

OK, before I totally off-topic this thread... lol

This is the Trick Flow I've been looking if I go EFI.
http://www.trickflow.com/egnsearch.asp? ... wordSearch

Not cheap but the best I've found for low and mid range torque…good up to about 6k for our cubes


TFS-51511004

Trick Flow® R-Series Intake Manifolds for Ford 351 Windsor
Intake Manifold, R-Series, EFI, Aluminum, Black Powdercoated, Multi-Port, Ford, 351W, 5.8L, 75mm, Kit


Much more than 5500 rpm and the Box plenum is the way to go.

Great site btw

I'll do my best to not drive ya nuts with questions and comments...it's because I'm doing the same build I want to hear yours running!!

[airbur]

This is the Trick Flow I've been looking if I go EFI.
http://www.trickflow.com/egnsearch.asp? ... wordSearch

Not cheap but the best I've found for low and mid range torque…good up to about 6k for our cubes. Great site btw

I'll do my best to not drive ya nuts with questions and comments...it's because I'm doing the same build I want to hear yours running!!

Yep, that's the exact one I'm going to use...with the 90mm throttle body. Have you decided on valve covers? These are what I'll be going with....

http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts/pa ... ield=11077

I talked to Ford Racing and they said even though the description shows not for EFI it should work fine with the TrickFlow intakes.

[airbur]

Here is where I'm at with the rod debacle......new Ultralight I-Beams are on their way from Woody at FordStrokers.com. Woody orders directly from the manufacturer (which is not CHP). I chose these as they are the exact same starting weight as the rods that I have, so re-balancing shouldn't be horrible.

http://www.fordstrokers.com/connecting- ... 6-125.html

Anyone interested in doing business with Coast High Performance should IM me for my experience.

The replacement gasket set arrived from Summit. Can't accomplish much more until the new rods arrive. At that point I'll get them installed on the pistons and start checking clearances again. Once that's done, it's back to the machine shop for a complete re-balance. Turns out that CAMResearch is also a full machine shop MUCH closer to me so they'll be doing any more machine/balancing work I need done.