I finally took the time to pull the cover off of the D44 on my bronco today.
I counted 46 teeth on the ring, and 13 on the pinion which my trusty calculator tells me is 3.54 gear ratio. I still don't know how many splines though. Is there any way to figure out splines besides pulling either an axle or the carrier?
I have an open carrier, which I think limits my choice of drop in limited slip (read cheap here). I've read allot about the Aussie locker, and there's a great tech article about installing it on classicbroncos.com. I've also read allot of good things about the Lock Rite. It seems very similar to the Aussie to install.
Both sell in the low to mid $200s which is about right.
This is an open carrier right? I'd rather sound stupid asking the question, then FEEL stupid for ordering the wrong thing.
That is an open carrier and I believe all EB Dana 44 diffs are 30 spline. There were some 19 spline Dana 44s, but they were mostly found in rigs older than our EBs. You may already know this, but limited slips and lockers come in 2 styles-one than fits inside the open carrier and replaces the spider gears and one that replaces the entire carrier. Most L/S units and lockers fall into the second category, so you can run them without worrying about what kind of carrier you have now. They're more expensive, but are generally regarded as stronger. If you're not going to be doing any harder trails, then it isn't a big deal. The LS unit that Zillacon is running (Dana Power Lock, I think) is a sweet setup, and is probably the way I'd go if you've got the $$ and power steering. It'll lock up to 90% (meaning it is sending almost equal power to both wheels), making it almost as tight as a true locker. A more traditional limited slip like the Lock Rite is about half the price, but will only lock up to 50%. As you're aware, the Lock Rite will reuse your original carrier, where the Power Lock won't. The Aussie locker will lock 100%, but will be either completely locked or completely open, which can make for some odd handling traits on slick surfaces. Not really a big deal unless you're going to do much snow driving on the street or have manual steering. A front locker without power steering is a great workout when you're in 4wd. With the Dana 44 you need a different carrier for lower gears, so if you're going to change gearing for larger tires now would be the time to do it. You may also want to budget in a set of bearings to have handy just in case you need them. Setting up the gears can be a bit fiddly and takes some knowledge, but we've got a couple of resident experts in the club, so you're good there.
zillacon wrote:Clay not sure if your interested but I will have my 4:10 Gears up for grabs in the next month as I will be re-gearing. They are less than a year old. If you are you would have to get a different carrier for the front for the 4:10 gearset but it would be the perfect time if you have to buy a LS.
I was going to mention about the different carrier if going to 4.10 from 3.54.
Bob - Turning hydrocarbons into noise since 1970
Spiritual owner of the now Zoso mobile (1974 Bronco Ranger - EFI 351W-4R70W-ARB front and rear-STC softtop- High Country hood-3 1/2" WH lift- Cross inboard rear shock mnt- Duffs bumpers- Warn 8274- 33's- Cheby disc conversion)
What are the main reasons to switch from 3.54 to 4.10? I can see better leverage for driving large tires or having more power on trails, but are there more reasons? This is my daily driver so I'm more interested in fuel economy, drive-ability, and safety than I am with trails and power. I already feel like I'm over-revving the engine to go highway speeds, so increasing the gear ratio doesn't seem likely for me.
Justin wrote:The Aussie locker will lock 100%, but will be either completely locked or completely open, which can make for some odd handling traits on slick surfaces. Not really a big deal unless you're going to do much snow driving on the street
That's exactly what I expect to do, so it sounds like the Aussie is not a good idea.
I am going front and rear limited slips so it really can go in the snow, trails, street, etc. for the best all around. I am curious to know exactly what Zilla has before I order.
"I truly believe that good will outweigh evil, but there won't be peace on earth until the power of love overcomes the love of power" - Jimi Hendrix
Vragor wrote:What are the main reasons to switch from 3.54 to 4.10? I can see better leverage for driving large tires or having more power on trails, but are there more reasons? This is my daily driver so I'm more interested in fuel economy, drive-ability, and safety than I am with trails and power. I already feel like I'm over-revving the engine to go highway speeds, so increasing the gear ratio doesn't seem likely for me.........
Clay if it's your daily driver and you only occasionally hit the high country then I wouldn't change gears. Taller tires will help with the over rev issue as well. If you go taller tires you might think about it though. When you go bigger tires and then go up in altitude you will wish you had lower gears. Keep it close to stock and you'll do fine.
Bob - Turning hydrocarbons into noise since 1970
Spiritual owner of the now Zoso mobile (1974 Bronco Ranger - EFI 351W-4R70W-ARB front and rear-STC softtop- High Country hood-3 1/2" WH lift- Cross inboard rear shock mnt- Duffs bumpers- Warn 8274- 33's- Cheby disc conversion)
I have a lock-rite in the front on my bronco. I have broken u-joints, axle shafts, and hubs and that locker has survived. Opposed to what Justin said, mine locks up 100%, but I have not read any literature on it. You don't know it's there unless you are in 4WD and hubs locked. Also, if you get a locker that locks 100% and you don't like the way it's handing on the slicks streets, you can unlock one hub and that would act similar to what you have now with an open diff. The difference would be that only that one tire with the locked up would be the one getting power where what you have now that power alternates.
Some catch-phrases are: Lunch box locker: a locker that replaces only the spider gears and the carrier remains. If you keep track of shims and where they come from, no need to set your gears up again.
Truetrac is another soft locker that I hear good things about. Made by Eaton, the makers of the venerable Detroit locker: http://www.eaton.com/Eaton/ProductsServ ... PCT_221471 What's better about this one as opposed to your normal LS is that it uses gears to lock up, not clutch packs.
J.D.
1973 Bronco, 351 SEFI, Locked, discs, 35's ZF-5spd and Atlas 4spd. 235:1 Crawl Ratio. It may be ugly, but it's slow. http://www.ucora.org
If I go with something other than a lunchbox will I have to redo all of the spacers and gaps? I have no experience loading a differential. I watched Zilla et al change his front end. What I got out of it was you had to do it over and over and you have to swear allot.
I'm leaning allot more towards a limited slip unit rather than a full locker after reading allot of horror stories with auto lockers on slippery pavement. Several people discussed the fact that auto lockers are actually auto unlockers. They need some friction on wheels to be able to unlock, and if you are on very slipper surfaces, they might not unlock which can prevent you from steering around corners well. Did I get that right?
I think a lunchbox is a perfect fit for your situation. But, yes, if you go with anything that replaces your carrier, you will have to get the gaps and pattern back into spec. A 9" is a great axle for a novice. I've set mine up once. I have helped in setting up gears for other axles (like a D44 etc), but never done one myself. There's just a lot of tricks of the trade that help setup gears (like honing out the old bearings to use as space holders for the new bearings) etc. I don't think you can really go wrong with any of the aforementioned lunchbox lockers.
1973 Bronco, 351 SEFI, Locked, discs, 35's ZF-5spd and Atlas 4spd. 235:1 Crawl Ratio. It may be ugly, but it's slow. http://www.ucora.org
Clay, I really like my Aussie locker up front in the D44. It was a simple install and took me about 2 hours start to finish to install, and I was not in a hurry. I followed the included instructions and also read the write up on CB.com. I've had it for a little over two years and have driven it in various conditions - flat trail, rock crawling, snow (powder to slush), ice and rain. It performs well in all the conditions but it does have some characteristics that you'll want to consider. With only the hubs locked and the transfer in 2wd you won't even know it is there (this is how I run it when I think I'll be using it), since without a drive load the locker gears unload and slide past each other, I don't ever hear it. With the hubs locked and the transfer in 4wd you notice a pull on the steering wheel when turning as it tries to center itself, not annoying with power steering, but you'll know it's working. It have never felt that it has prevented me from turning into a corner or pushed me out of a turn when the road condition changed. But I am aware that I'm driving a SWB vehicle on slick surfaces so I do expect it to slip a bit. I've only heard/felt it disengage twice since I've had it, both times I was off road and moving fast and unloaded my suspension while braking.
Sounds like an Aussie may be a great way to go for the front D44 since it is a true 100% locker, priced similar to limited slips, 2-hour install, lock one hub for slick/snowy roads, and great reviews.
I found this youtube video showing how the lock right works, but I'd guess all lunchbox lockers operate in much the same way. They all have a very similar design.
It certainly helped me to understand the reason for the negative comments about auto lockers. I think that with proper understanding and a little practice I'll be just fine with either a Lock Right or an Aussie. Unfortunately, Aussies are out of stock and have been for a while. They seem to only sell direct
Spartan seems to be building a decent reputation and being from Yukon it has a good metal forming history behind it. It also comes with a new hardened pin which the others indicate you might need but don't include.
If you go buy the # of positive reviews, Aussie seems to be the clear winner. There are many more positive reviews of Aussies than any other. There are some negative reviews of the Aussie but they are few and far between.
Lock Right has the second most # of positives but it's about 1/4 of the Aussies. There are also more negative reviews of the Lock Right, mostly dealing with broken pins and the poor manual.
Spartan has only a few reviews, but it's much newer than the others. There are very few negative reviews.
E-Z Locker has only a few positive revies (or I just couldn't find them). It has mostly negatives and some people who are so negative they seem to have gone out of their way looking for threads about the E-Z locker and posting their negative opinions on them. It's possible it's just a few people making allot of noise, but overall the E-Z locker doesn't fare well in public opinion.
When I say "reviews" I mean people talking on forums like this and giving their personal opinions and experiences, rather than magazines or commercial websites.
Clay - the top three there appear to be identical in function, if not form too. Probably can't go wrong with either, especially for your application where you're not looking for rock crawling stuff. Find the best deal and go for it.
1973 Bronco, 351 SEFI, Locked, discs, 35's ZF-5spd and Atlas 4spd. 235:1 Crawl Ratio. It may be ugly, but it's slow. http://www.ucora.org
I used an EZ locker for a while in the front and it was fine. What I didn't like was the fact that I had a limited slip out back and an auto locker up front. The limited slip and short wheelbase made it difficult to drive on the snowy streets in 2wd. When I put it in 4wd it went straight as an arrow, even through the turns.
Viperwolf1 wrote:I used an EZ locker for a while in the front and it was fine. What I didn't like was the fact that I had a limited slip out back and an auto locker up front. The limited slip and short wheelbase made it difficult to drive on the snowy streets in 2wd. When I put it in 4wd it went straight as an arrow, even through the turns.
That jives with what I've read. With the auto locker, do not accelerate through turns. The act of accelerating locks the axels which prevents the wheels from spinning at different rates. This makes the vehicle try to go straight. Most people say that if the auto locker is in the front and you have power steering, it's not as big of a problem.
I read one story (might have even been on here) where a guy tried to pass a slow moving vehicle on the highway. He hit the accelerator as he was changing lanes and it suddenly slammed him right back into his lane. He only narrowly missed clipping the other vehicle's rear end.
J.D. and I experienced the same thing on the snow run last week. He was plowing through deep snow and when we came to little turn, the Bronco didn't. He hit the brakes and just stopped before hitting a tree.
The story you quote above was from the snow bashing trip and was in regard to a rear detroit locker. That's known as torque steer. When you apply power to an auto-locker, it does lock. So even tho the difference in the tire speed when changing lanes is minimal, it is enough to make things scary when you romp on the gas and cause both tires to turn at the same rate.
As to me nearly hitting a tree, that was more the surface we were wheeling on than a locked front end. You might recall we were headed downhill, and the road was already leaning slightly towards that tree and the momentum we were carrying pushed us towards that tree. Honestly, having a locked front end had little effect on that particular scenario. That's my experience talking. I've got lots of winter wheeling miles under my belt.
What you do notice from a locked front end on a loose surface (gravel road) is that you cannot turn as sharp with the front end locked than if it wasn't. You might have noticed that I did most of the trail in 2WD for that reason. And that locker seems to be locked on any loose surface regardless if I am turning or not. I don't recall ever having my bronco in 4WD on the street, so I can only assume it works as designed and unlocks around corners when traction is very good. But with any loose surface, it seems to be locked all the time.
J.D.
1973 Bronco, 351 SEFI, Locked, discs, 35's ZF-5spd and Atlas 4spd. 235:1 Crawl Ratio. It may be ugly, but it's slow. http://www.ucora.org
Vragor wrote: I read one story (might have even been on here) where a guy tried to pass a slow moving vehicle on the highway. He hit the accelerator as he was changing lanes and it suddenly slammed him right back into his lane. He only narrowly missed clipping the other vehicle's rear end.
That was me telling you about my near death experience with my Bronco when it belonged to my dad after he just installed the Detroit. Sure does open the eyes.
Bob - Turning hydrocarbons into noise since 1970
Spiritual owner of the now Zoso mobile (1974 Bronco Ranger - EFI 351W-4R70W-ARB front and rear-STC softtop- High Country hood-3 1/2" WH lift- Cross inboard rear shock mnt- Duffs bumpers- Warn 8274- 33's- Cheby disc conversion)
Vragor wrote: I read one story (might have even been on here) where a guy tried to pass a slow moving vehicle on the highway. He hit the accelerator as he was changing lanes and it suddenly slammed him right back into his lane. He only narrowly missed clipping the other vehicle's rear end.
That was me telling you about my near death experience with my Bronco when it belonged to my dad after he just installed the Detroit. Sure does open the eyes.
I read quite a few similar experiences but yours stayed at the top of my mind. My brain works that way. I can't remember specifics at all, but I remember concepts and relationships.
Same here. Sometimes it's a case of CRS that get's me good.
Bob - Turning hydrocarbons into noise since 1970
Spiritual owner of the now Zoso mobile (1974 Bronco Ranger - EFI 351W-4R70W-ARB front and rear-STC softtop- High Country hood-3 1/2" WH lift- Cross inboard rear shock mnt- Duffs bumpers- Warn 8274- 33's- Cheby disc conversion)
I currently have the Aussie in my front with a Detroit in the rear. I am going to swap the Aussie for a Detroit up front. I am happy with the Aussie but when I am easing up onto a rock ledge or obstacle I tend to have to hit it with the skinny peddle a little more than I want to lock it up. I feel that the Detroit is either locked or not, via the hubs etc. So with the Detroit I will manage my front with the hubs or twin sticks when off road. I don't drive it much for a commuter and feel I will be OK with my road vs off road needs. The Aussie is a great product, I just want a little more than what I have at the moment. Just my two cents.
I Emailed Aussie yesterday about the Out of Stock status for the last few months on the D44 model. Here's the reply:
From: Bill Cole <bill@aussielocker.com> Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2012 11:48:47 -0500 Subject: Re: Contact Form
Thank you for your interest in the Dana 44 Aussie Locker. We were in and out of stock over the past 6 months, so depending on when you checked our web site you might or might not find that we had stock. Shipments were selling out within days of arriving at our facility and the factory was simply not able to keep with demand on the high volume models..
We have added production capacity and are in the process of establishing new production schedules. Currently the Dana 44 is schedule to start production late February.
We apologize for this delay, but the new capability will enable us to respond more quickly to peaks in demand and therefore provide a much better level of service to our customers.
Bill
"I truly believe that good will outweigh evil, but there won't be peace on earth until the power of love overcomes the love of power" - Jimi Hendrix
If they're not even going to start production until late February (read well in to March), and they first have to start by filling all of the back orders. It will be summer before I get one.
I'm not going to wait for an Aussie. I will probably order a Spartan in the next few days.
I think it is luck of checking stock on the website and ordering when the item is in stock - you cannot 'Add to Cart' when the item is backordered. I watched the YouTube videos last night and think this is something that I can do. I am waiting for the Aussie D44 and will start checking their site in March. Still undecided about the fisshbowl
"I truly believe that good will outweigh evil, but there won't be peace on earth until the power of love overcomes the love of power" - Jimi Hendrix
Entourage wrote: Still undecided about the fisshbowl
It would be hilarious to get some plastic and somehow glue them to the cover with ing line, just so they couldn't interfere with anything... People would take a second look for sure!
1973 Bronco, 351 SEFI, Locked, discs, 35's ZF-5spd and Atlas 4spd. 235:1 Crawl Ratio. It may be ugly, but it's slow. http://www.ucora.org
and somehow glue them to the cover with