Putting the 9" back together - question

[landshark]

First time I have messed with a Ford 9" and seem to be doing pretty good.

A few questions. With pics

First one is I made a mistake and forgot the oil slinger that goes between the pinon seal and the outer bearing. I will more than likely tear up the seal if i have to remove it. Is this slinger neccesary? I know its there to keep the oil off the seal (and leaks), but just wondering.



Second question - When i put on the outer bearing I did not have to press it onto pinon. It wasn't exactly loose but its not hard to take on and off. Is this a problem? I assume the crush sleeve will load up the two bearings in between the yoke and the pinon end. But just wanted to check.



Last question. I hear that I will need to torque the pinon down with the crush sleeve to about 300 ft lbs to 400 ft lbs to crush the sleeve. to do this I would probably have to put it in the housing but my ft lb thingy only goes up to 250LB... will this be a problem?

[Booger]

First time I have messed with a Ford 9" and seem to be doing pretty good.

A few questions. With pics

First one is I made a mistake and forgot the oil slinger that goes between the pinon seal and the outer bearing. I will more than likely tear up the seal if i have to remove it. Is this slinger neccesary? I know its there to keep the oil off the seal (and leaks), but just wondering.
The slinger isn't for keeping the oil off the seal as it is for slinging oil back onto the bearings.


Second question - When i put on the outer bearing I did not have to press it onto pinon. It wasn't exactly loose but its not hard to take on and off. Is this a problem? I assume the crush sleeve will load up the two bearings in between the yoke and the pinon end. But just wanted to check.
The outer bearing should slide on the pinion that's the way it works. Correct in that the crush sleeve is used to load the bearings.


Last question. I hear that I will need to torque the pinon down with the crush sleeve to about 300 ft lbs to 400 ft lbs to crush the sleeve. to do this I would probably have to put in the housing but my ft lb thingy only goes up to 250LB... will this be a problem?
Your gonna need a heck of a cheater bar to crank down on that nut to get it to crush so don't use the torque wrench. I hate doing that so I purchased a fixed sleeve with shims and go that route. Besides it's reusable. If you over torque the crush sleeve your gonna have to replace it. You can't just back it off a little bit.

Wow gotta get up awful early to beat you Dan. At least we said the same thing. LOL

[landshark]

Thanks guys, well i will go buy a new seal, they are cheap enough to pull it and do it right - guess i can find a slide hammer finally as well ;) maybe harbor freight...

You know iam going to buy a inch/pd bar type or dial type torque wrench as the one i have is one of those handle click types and i will use it again... thanks for the offer!

I have another crush sleeve so if i do mess up i have another chance, I dont plan on pulling these gear ever again.. so i will leave the crush sleeve in there for now.

The gears I have are used and I read in the ford shop manuals you watch the coast side when installing new bearings with old gears. Got it!

I have found a decent set of videos explaining in pretty good detail about how to install bearings in a ford nine inch. You just have to get around the goofy stuff on each end of the video but all in all its pretty good. There are 4 in the series here is the one for the pinon preload and start of the install.

8:40 starts to show how they do preload etc...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h56pkdrNOok

[landshark]

I had another Brain Fart. If you are using the factory gears take a look to see if they have timing marks on them. You will see a grinding notch on one of the pinion teeth and between two teeth on the ring gear on the outside. They did this as the older machining process wasnt that acurate and need to be timed.

ok i will look for the marks

[landshark]

ok I tried what you all suggested however Iam a bit stumped at this pooint.

I'm not sure if I have the wrong crush sleeve, the new ones i have happen to be used, or maybe for some reason have a different rear end? maybe a medium duty? Maybe I got the wrong rebuild kit? (dont think this is the problem as everything seems to fit together - besides the pinon preloading issue.

Problem iam having is with the pinon assembly. I removed the seal, put the oil slinger back on and then installed the new seal. I put a new (or what i thought was new) crush sleeve on, the yoke and then tightened it down until i had almost no movement along the pinon itself.. however the pinon holder spins almost freely with almost no resistance... I have cranked down on the pinon nut (over 150lbs) and it wont tighten. so this leads me to believe for whatever reason the cush seeve is either the wrong one or is used. The thing is i had or had two brand new ones... they both act the same way.

I have been really careful putting everything back together. The bearings are in the proper orientation, the seal is on good, the crush sleeve is int he proper place on the pinon and I cleaned everything really well.. but i cannot preload the pinon no matter what I try.

Right now iam going to order another crush sleeve. maybe for whatever reason mine is wrong or was used.. it came in a kit so i find that a bit far fetched but stranger things have happened. I have included a few pics from tonight including the rear tag for the axle.. any ideas?

The ford shop books approach it a bit differently. I would be happy to scan the pages in if that would help but I assume one ford 9 inch is the same as the next so its not like there is something so special about mine that it wouldn't work like everyone elses...



Just test fitting...

[landshark]

ok, i will try again. I really cranked down on it with my breaker bar and i threw a cheater bar on it and was afraid i was going to break something so I stopped...

I actually ripped my vise off the table and had to remount it.. but its not a huge one so not surprised.

I will give it another go after dinner if i can get the vise to hold on long enough lol...

[ZOSO]

Just what dan said. it can take upwards of 200+ ft lbs to start to crush it. It you dont feel comfortable then order up an adjustable shim kit. then you dont have to worry about the "crush" sleeve.

[landshark]

ok i think i got it.. got tighter and made very small adjustments. I used my inch pound breaker bar set on 12 to get a feel for it.. and stopped when i was close to 21... was afraid of going any farther....
-Are you using a dial type tourque wrench? Just an FYI A regular tourque wrench wont work. I would try to get it a tad more, the reason being is that the seal itself will create some resiatance as well. When I do a D44 I set the preload without the seal first to get it dead on but with a crush sleeve its hard to do it that way but the seal will indeed create some resistance and make sure it is lubed up with oil good on the yoke and seal to help out.
So it should have some resistance, when you turn it correct? its not easy to turn but isn't too tough with one hand...
-Yes there should be some reistance.
I put the pinon in the housing and did a quick setup for now and it seems hard to turn. I have to grab the ring gear pretty good to get it to turn.. its not easy. Sound about right?
-Yes
Tomorrow I will start over on the ring and carrier and get them ready for a good gear mesh read and backlash adjustment.

Can i reuse my old spacer? or should i measure it and use a new one?
-Yes if it is clean and not bent etc. bit final gear pattern is what you are concerned about

Thanks again for the help.. i was afraid to crank on it as I have broken other things with too much force.

[landshark]

I had another Brain Fart. If you are using the factory gears take a look to see if they have timing marks on them. You will see a grinding notch on one of the pinion teeth and between two teeth on the ring gear on the outside. They did this as the older machining process wasnt that acurate and need to be timed.

ok i will look for the marks

I looked on the ring gear for marks.. i dont see any obvious ones, what would they look like? I looked in the valleys and the outside on the ring gear shoulder etc.. .

I see what seems to be a mark, its a long groove or scratch that points to one of the teeth on the pinon. I can try to get a picture tomorrow if possible..

[landshark]

ok so i have the backlash at .010 whch is right in the middle of what the book states.

I put marking compound on the teeth and ran the ring gear around both ways a bunch of times.

This is the pattern iam getting.







I read and i was told that i only have to pay attention to the coast side of the pattern when reinstalling the old ring and pinon, which is the slanted side of the tooth.

If this is the case and Iam reading this correctly i will have to move the Pinon in toward the ring geat.

I reused the old shim so not sure why its off so much.

[landshark]

According to my shop manual this is an acceptable pattern. Even if I ignore the drive side since they are use gears I think it looks pretty good.

Maybe move the ring gear away from the pi├▒on a bit. Which undoing now.