Calling transmission gurus

Post by **hockeydad4-22** » Sat Jul 21, 2012 3:41 pm

Drews C-4 seems to be "searching" a lot. He says on the highway when it shifts into high gear at times it remains out of gear for a second or two.

We ordered a new pan gasket and new filter. They will be in late next week. Who knows how long it has been since it was serviced.

What are your thoughts, will this fix it or are we most likely going to be dropping the pan again in another week, wasting the new atf.

Speaking of atf, what do you recommend?

Viperwolf1 · Post by **Viperwolf1** » Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:22 pm

Possibly direct clutch (3rd gear) slow to apply or clutches slipping. Look at the fluid level and condition. If its low add some type F. If it's burnt and dark you might be able to extend life with a fluid and filter change. Might be worthwhile adjusting the front band (2nd gear) too. If it's too loose it'll release too early.

You will need a 3/4" wrench and a 5/16" wrench. 5 minute job.

1) Bust the locknut loose.
2) Turn the adjuster in (CW) until you can tell it seats good (a couple ft-lbs). This tightens the band around the drum.
3) Now turn the adjuster out 1 1/2 turns. This provides proper band to drum clearance.
4) Hold the adjuster still and tighten the locknut to about 30 ft-lbs.

If you turn the adjusters out too far you could drop the struts between the band and adjusters. That would require removal of the valve body to put it back together.

When you remove the filter be sure to catch the spring and valve that will fall out of the valve body. The small tab on the filter is what holds it in.

Post by **airbur** » Sat Jul 21, 2012 8:15 pm

Who could ask for better instructions?

Post by **hockeydad4-22** » Wed Jul 25, 2012 6:28 pm

Ok, after much research, trial and error, I think we have the carb tuned and engine running as well as it can. But the trans..... Now that is another story entirely. Test drive tonight and she never drops into first, even when we shift it manually, no first.

The filter and gasket have not come in yet, supposed to arrive tomorrow. Any thoughts? Anyone (calling Viper) want to come over and help, or even better, teach? I will stock up on your favorite cold beverage. Anytime friday evening through the weekend. Just let me know what works for you

Viperwolf1 · Post by **Viperwolf1** » Wed Jul 25, 2012 7:11 pm

Time to drop the valve body. The 1-2 shift valve may be hung up. The valve body collects a lot of junk inside and there's only one way to clean it out. The thing to wonder about is where is the junk coming from?

I can get some stuff together and give you a hand on Sat.

Post by **hockeydad4-22** » Wed Jul 25, 2012 7:20 pm

Phil, that would be awesome! I will pm you my address. What time are you thinking? I am available all day.

Viperwolf1 · Post by **Viperwolf1** » Wed Jul 25, 2012 8:34 pm

I'm thinking earlier is cooler. How about 9ish?

Post by **hockeydad4-22** » Thu Jul 26, 2012 5:58 am

9ish works just fine for me. Will have coffe on and doughnuts. Cold frosty beverages in the fridge for later if we go that long.

Thanks

Post by **hockeydad4-22** » Sat Jul 28, 2012 6:34 am

All set, parts, atf, coffee, doughnHiuts...

Post by **akaFrankCastle** » Sat Jul 28, 2012 10:37 pm

hockeydad4-22 wrote:doughnHiuts...

Lemme guess. Smart phone? :laughing2:

Post by **hockeydad4-22** » Mon Jul 30, 2012 5:59 am

Yeah - apparently it speaks German too...

Saturday we pulled the pan, filter and valve body - with Viper's expert help, the pan was removed, the filter and valve body removed, valve body cleaned and rebuilt, bands tightened, new filter and gasket installed and a test drive.... To discover the trans was toast.

A call was put out for a replacement and none other than Willem (TaskForceBronco) stepped up with his very own Viper Built C4 stepped up and offered it with the promise of a replacement. Viper came over on Sunday to supervise the installation and at the end of a very long day - the garage test (no road test yet) was demonstrated a successful install. Full report and pic's shortly in his build thread here: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=222

Post by **airbur** » Mon Jul 30, 2012 7:12 am

Wow! That is awesome you had a newly rebuilt tranny avail. shortly after requesting one! Very nice.

Viperwolf1 · Post by **Viperwolf1** » Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:07 am

I've never seen clutches weld themselves together like in this C4. Pump is chewed up from all the debris. Other than that the internals look ok.

Post by **hockeydad4-22** » Tue Jul 31, 2012 6:20 am

Wow! Not to shocked about the pump, but the clutches.... Naw - that does not strike me as shocking either. I honestly do not believe Drew is the first person to drive his rig somewhat hard.

Question for you Viper: We got everything done, replaced, bled etc. Took her for a test drive and no four wheel drive. Front axle does not engage. Also the T-case is making a loud rattle. Now remember, the boys took the front hubs apart, and put them together again without any supervision.

Any brilliant ideas?

Everything else seems absolutely perfect.

(other than the large leak from the oil pan.... grrrrrrr!)

Viperwolf1 · Post by **Viperwolf1** » Tue Jul 31, 2012 7:31 am

Got to be in the hubs. Just one not engaging will do it. Don't know about the rattle. We didn't really touch the tcase.

Pretty good hub diagram here: http://broncograveyard.com/dia/6/d30dialockout.jpg The spring needs to go with the bigger end in first.

Post by **hockeydad4-22** » Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:30 am

I have to think the T-case is in the twin stick install - something not correct there or the push rods. We will look at it tonight as well as re-assemble the hubs...

Otherwise - everything is wonderful, thank you for all your help and teaching. We could not have done it without you.

Post by **Justin** » Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:41 pm

Based on the year of your Bronco, I'm assuming the t-case is J shift, correct? If not, twin-sticked T-shifts have a particular sequence you have to follow unless the interlock mechanism is modified.

Post by **hockeydad4-22** » Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:54 pm

Yes, j shift. Tonight I will remove and reinstall the shifter following the original directions to the letter

Viperwolf1 · Post by **Viperwolf1** » Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:05 pm

Shifter can only be installed wrong if the rod end missed the slot. You would know if that happened because it would have a bunch of slop in it. If you look from underneath you can see if this is the case. I really think the problem is in one or both hubs. Lock hubs and turn the driveshaft by hand (tcase in neutral). If an axle shaft spins then that hub isn't working.

Post by **Kinder** » Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:21 pm

I vote hub, only parts with no adult supervision.

Post by **hockeydad4-22** » Wed Aug 01, 2012 4:41 am

We took an evening off bronco issues, watched the olympics for the first time instead. We were starting to get pissed off so figured the time away would be good for everyone including Drews little pony.

We will attack it again tonight and post up the results. Thanks again for all the help and advice

Post by **airbur** » Wed Aug 01, 2012 5:51 am

When I took my hubs apart, they were caked in with dirt and grime. Also, some of the parts were fused together making them appear to be one part, when they were really multiples. I decided to get a new pair of Superwinch hubs from Orielly and they fit/work perfectly.

This.... http://www.superwinch.com/products/prod ... 0.0?pp=12&

or this... http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detai ... &ppt=C0337

Post by **Rox Crusher** » Wed Aug 01, 2012 8:23 am

hockeydad4-22 wrote:We took an evening off bronco issues, watched the olympics for the first time instead. We were starting to get pissed off so figured the time away would be good for everyone including Drews little pony.

We will attack it again tonight and post up the results. Thanks again for all the help and advice

Dagnabbit, how are we to live vicariously through your trials and tribulations if your gonna put your feet up and watch tv ?

icon biggin

Post by **hockeydad4-22** » Wed Aug 01, 2012 12:18 pm

Rox Crusher wrote:
hockeydad4-22 wrote:We took an evening off bronco issues, watched the olympics for the first time instead. We were starting to get pissed off so figured the time away would be good for everyone including Drews little pony.

We will attack it again tonight and post up the results. Thanks again for all the help and advice

Dagnabbit, how are we to live vicariously through your trials and tribulations if your gonna put your feet up and watch tv ?

Oh sir - you are more than welcome to come on over and live through them in person if you prefer.

BTW- , You will be glad to know we did fix the alternator squeal earlier this summer.

Post by **Rox Crusher** » Wed Aug 01, 2012 12:52 pm

hockeydad4-22 wrote:BTW- , You will be glad to know we did fix the alternator squeal earlier this summer.

I saw that, but you didn't share the ultimate solution which escaped my sorry arse for so long ?

Post by **hockeydad4-22** » Wed Aug 01, 2012 12:59 pm

Rox Crusher wrote:
hockeydad4-22 wrote:BTW- , You will be glad to know we did fix the alternator squeal earlier this summer.

I saw that, but you didn't share the ultimate solution which escaped my sorry arse for so long ?

Smaller belt - super tight! No more squealing like a raped monkey.

Post by **Moab Mike** » Wed Aug 01, 2012 4:35 pm

hockeydad4-22 wrote:
Rox Crusher wrote:
hockeydad4-22 wrote:BTW- , You will be glad to know we did fix the alternator squeal earlier this summer.

I saw that, but you didn't share the ultimate solution which escaped my sorry arse for so long ?

Smaller belt - super tight! No more squealing like a raped monkey.

Make sure you don't tighten it to the point where you wear the internal bearings out prematurely.

Viperwolf1 · Post by **Viperwolf1** » Wed Aug 01, 2012 10:24 pm

What's the verdict?

Post by **hockeydad4-22** » Thu Aug 02, 2012 7:31 am

Last Night Kinder and his prodigy Task Force Bronco came over and helped us to diagnose/adjust/repair many of the issues:

#1 - front axle does not engage. Somewhere in the past, a previous owner did the chevy disk brake conversion. Huge plus there. But they did not replace the factory lock out hubs. Instead there is a (kinder's word here) "hoekie" bolt and washer set up that works, but if not perfect - does not engage. I am telling you, fine tuning over and over, micro adjustments and voila! Front axle engages perfect! On the list - Warn premium hubs.

#2 - Timing, carb, idle etc.... Kinder hooked up the light, adjusted everything to his liking and came to the same conclusion that I have. Much to Drew's disappointment. The Holley 650 carb just seems to be a bit to big, seems "over carbed". So this weekend - the intake and carb will be changed to the stock ones we have on the shelf. (Anyone interested in a intake and Holley 650 carb - comes complete with the full kit of jets and all? - Make us an offer). I have a brand new timing chain, gears and gaskets being delivered today from Jegs, just in case somehow she jumped a tooth or something. (yes, that is on the list to check as well)

#3 - The big mystery: Transfer case noise. Kinder agrees, twin stick seems quite "sloppy". He also wonders if somehow the fork on the primary slipped and is not fully seated. Everything works, jsut sloppy and noisy. We made some external adjustments to it, but no change. Everything works but she still rattles - or some other type of noise. So this weekend, the cover will come off and we shall inspect the guts of the case, see what we can learn, hopefully fix er right up.

So to review: Last night we got the passenger side caliper replaced (it was back ordered from napa), bled everything again so now she has all new brakes on all 4 corners. Even new roters on the front. Rebuilt the hubs and they work just fine. We will look for a good sale on the Warn premium replacement hubs. No rush. Timed, adjusted the carb as much as we are able but still..... Not perfect.

Big question mark is the transfer case. Kinder is going to reach out to the master himself and see if they can come up with any more ideas.

www.ColoradoClassicBroncos.com