Thinking of buying another bronco.. question

[landshark]

So as some of you know I have been looking for a Classic Bronco to replace my Fullsize Bronco and my car.. just too many vehicles and looking to downsize a bit.

Anyway have my eye on a Bronco and have been talking to the owner about purchasing it. It has a fuel injected 400 in it.. fresh rebuild.. hes running a NP435 behind it with a built Dana20 as far as I can tell. Anyone have any opinons on the 400? What are my transmission choices for overdrive? If I understand it would be considered a 351M 400? so a diesel ZF-5 will work? What about reliability and other things to look for?

This rig will for all intents and purposes be my daily driver and trail rig... not expecting long commutes so Under stand I will be getting poor gas mileage.. but eventually do want the overdrive for the highway.

The rest of the rig is fairly well built.. ARB's running 4.56 gears new shocks, new springs, solid truck no rust etc etc.. so great place to start..

[Gunnibronco]

Damn, I thought long and hard about wedging a 400 into my Bronco. I'd like to see pics of the engine bay & clearance if you buy this one.

The 400 is considered by some to be a boat anchor of a motor. I've done some reading and disagree. They were crippled from the factory to meet emissions. Minor changes can get 400-500 hp & torque numbers, and at very low rpms. They are a little heavier than a 351W, but lighter than the 460s, kind of a "medium" block. You can use Cleveland heads, but there are few other aftermarket options. Edelbrock used to make a 4bbl intake, but stopped, and now they are hard to find.

Yes, most 400s had the big block bell housing, so a BB or diesel ZF will fit (I found lots of those available, cheap, before I found my SB ZF). 351M & 400 shared blocks, heads, intakes, and cam I think, but had different crank, rods & pistons. They can be stroked to 434cu in.

Throttle body EFI, I'm guessing?

If you end up with it, I have bunches of 400 specific web sites saved, I'll send you a list if you are interested.

[landshark]

Well the engine is built and running.. he injected it.. i think its only one of 3 or 4 that have done the 400 install in a early EB.. anyway I will PM you specifics ;)

BTW you have any snow up there? I need to get up to CB... have ripped through all my days at steamboat already and only left with winterpark and copper...

Damn, I thought long and hard about wedging a 400 into my Bronco. I'd like to see pics of the engine bay & clearance if you buy this one.

The 400 is considered by some to be a boat anchor of a motor. I've done some reading and disagree. They were crippled from the factory to meet emissions. Minor changes can get 400-500 hp & torque numbers, and at very low rpms. They are a little heavier than a 351W, but lighter than the 460s, kind of a "medium" block. You can use Cleveland heads, but there are few other aftermarket options. Edelbrock used to make a 4bbl intake, but stopped, and now they are hard to find.

Yes, most 400s had the big block bell housing, so a BB or diesel ZF will fit (I found lots of those available, cheap, before I found my SB ZF). 351M & 400 shared blocks, heads, intakes, and cam I think, but had different crank, rods & pistons. They can be stroked to 434cu in.

Throttle body EFI, I'm guessing?

If you end up with it, I have bunches of 400 specific web sites saved, I'll send you a list if you are interested.

[Gunnibronco]

I took a quick look at his for sale listing. My first impression is that its a good build.

Tim Meyer is the 400 guru, and one of the pages I would have sent to you. Also the Aussie heads is what I've read to do. So he built the motor the way I would have after reading up for 6 months or so. I bet he's 400+ on hp & torque. I don't know squat about cam specs but if it was done right (and I bet it was), it probably sees all 400 ft/lbs right off idle. I saw some awesome hp/torque curves for these motors.

I had a 79 Bronco w/400 that was my axle donor truck. After learning of the 400s potential, I really wanted to put it in my Bronco. I only decided to scrap my 400 because I wanted to do factory EFI. I had a bad experience with a Holly Projection a long time ago, I'm sure they are better now, but I didn't want to do it again. I never considered a custom intake and MFI, that is pretty cool. Also the trans choices & clearance issues swayed me to the 351W.

I'm not sure the 400 would be the motor I'd choose for a daily driver, but if you don't mind the gas mileage, go for it. It might be nose heavy, but that can probably be dealt with. If you end up hating it, I'll trade you all my 351W & ZF stuff for your 400, and the insight on how to shoehorn it in.

If I had a Ford hot rod or street rod I'd love to put a 400 in it. It would be cool to dust people with a motor most think is a boat anchor.

[Gunnibronco]

Forgot, we are getting some snow. The base isn't great, 40", the steeps are more than a little rocky. But the rest of the mountain is all good. We have been getting a little snow every day or two lately, and its forecast to continue for a week or so. It might be the best it will be all season.

If you come up, let me know, I'd like to meet up & have a beer. I've got limited days off right now, but maybe, I could hit the slopes with you.

[crawlercreations]

Only concern I would have is cooling that engine. I looked and can't find it, got a link to it? I don't think anyone else is going to try to buy it out from under you but if you are worried about that send me a PM with a link please, sounds worth seeing!

[Jesus_man]

Sounds like a nice ride. I have another trade-off for you. Want the torque and the fuel mileage? Don't mind a little noise? 4BT. I know you're looking at a bronco you can climb in and go right now, but I would bet a properly turbo'ed 4BT would keep up with a 400 and get twice the fuel mileage doing it.

[landshark]

I guess it wouldn't hurt to post the specifics up...

So i have pretty much decided to downsize my vehicle collection and thinking of selling my car and the big bronco replacing both with an early bronco that can be more of a daily driver with some offroad duties. Looking for one thats cut, lifted, body is done or about done, painted, running gear is solid and geared, interior can be unfinished or at least half way there.. bonuses would be fuel injected, selectable lockers, a/c, full cage, suspension seats, custom bumpers etc etc... I know I'm not asking for much.

I have been talking to a guy in New Mexico who had his rig for sale on CB.com

Basically its running a 400 holley injected engine, a beast for a little bronco.. but looks like a great build. I dont know much about the 400 but it looks like the guy did a pretty good job. Both axles, the entire suspension, body etc etc have been done (body isn't perfect but its pretty straight) I have some plans if I decide to go through with the purchase, reworking the intieror, long arms, 5 speed tranny (thinking zf-5) atlas etc etc.. A/C and some other stuff.. but the base to work off is there, things that I can do while i drive it.

It is a great build and one I would probably have already jumped on if I was going to buy for a trail rig only but as a Daily Driver a few things have me concerned. The first one is minor - the color.. red. not a huge fan. (no offense jason ) and yes i know it can be changed, but still will need to live with it for the time being. The 400 is another, its big, its bad but for a daily driver it has me concerned - reliability, cooling, support if there is a problem etc etc.

Talking to the owner recently he had mentioned that it hasn't been too bad in the temp department however he only ran it a few times over the summer and it was approaching 210+(my big bronco 302 runs at 210 all day long in the summer but its a 302 roller). Since then he has made some changes to the tune and it hasn't got over 195, but its winter so only a mid summer day on the trail will tell. Another concern is the lack of vents, no fresh air.. no air in general.. yes there is always windows but for a DD thats a bit of a concern for "comfort" i know its relative.. but still something to keep in mind.

As you all know I'm not afraid to do some work, however this will not be able to be a frame off and want something that I can jump in and drive with confidence now.. do the things I want to along the way. I'm even thinking of picking up a semi restore and finishing it off but it would again have to be the right truck..

I know there's allot of reading.. but here are the links.

Link to his for sale thread:
http://classicbroncos.com/forums/showth ... p?t=219269

Link to his build threads:
http://classicbroncos.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73044
http://classicbroncos.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=173796

Link to the photos he sent me.. hes 6'6" or something.. so the pictures are all looking down on the bronco.. lol...
http://www.almostmadeit.com/g/#1302127_Red_Bronco

[landshark]

I'm not sure the 400 would be the motor I'd choose for a daily driver, but if you don't mind the gas mileage, go for it. It might be nose heavy, but that can probably be dealt with. If you end up hating it, I'll trade you all my 351W & ZF stuff for your 400, and the insight on how to shoehorn it in.

He made special offset motor mounts and notched the firewall to get it to fit.. its close. To change the plugs he had to cut the fender wells...

[crawlercreations]

I followed along with his build years ago. It sounds like he research the crap out of anything he did before he did it so he did it right the first time. I stopped following along his build when it stretched out for years. It looks solid. I think that is a lot of motor but should be just fine for reliability and longevity. I would guess 10 miles to the gallon regardless of how easy you drive it but that is not your concern as you've posted. I'm guessing there would be a few bugs to work out with it before it was daily driver ready but that's to be expected with any used vehicle. I don't know what kind of $$ your looking at paying but it must be worth it to you so i think you would be fine and happy with it!

Only downside is that horrible red

[landshark]

Red is gross :)

[Colorado75bronc]

I had followed his build for years, thought it was awesome, my old 79' bronco had a very built 400m, high compression, custom cam, Cleveland heads, balanced, and it was a screamer! Through 3/4 ton drivetrain and 38x14.50 tsl sx's it layed down over 300hp and about the same torque at the rear wheels on the dyno in Laramie, wy at wyotech, was always very reliable, but had its flaws, m motors and Cleveland's have no coolant flow through the intake, so they aren't the biggest fan of the cold, and I can tell you there were many days for the first few minutes even with the block heater plugged in it mine would run on 4cylinders for a few minutes, I never experienced it, but have heard of many pushrod/rocker issues in these motors as well, if you end up getting it I would love to see it

[landshark]

Ya iam on the fence.. i mean i can drive it and if it starts to be a pain in the ass then I can put a 351w in it but at the same time I dont want to worry about the engine, peace of mind and all that. Iam thinking about it.. its a nice build for sure it might be a bit more than i wanted for a DD but i think I can balance it out with some tweaks here and there..

[Colorado75bronc]

I think you should do it if the price is right, and if you end up not liking the engine, swap in a diesel, get 20-30 mpg, and sell that built 406m for a pretty penny

[landshark]

DONE ;)

[Dukietown]

Looks like he made the decision for you on this one

[landshark]

I have been talking to the owner for a while so we finally settled on a price.

I will be heading down there sometime after the snow storm, maybe in the next week or so to pick it up.

[Dukietown]

oh well nevermind then! his for sale thread says he decided to keep it haha. Congrats!

[landshark]

ya he pulled it off, i wasn't even expecting to buy it just messaged him about it and he said he wanted to sell it still - and here we are. LOL

[Kinder]

Congrats, when you get it home I'd love to swing by and check it out.

[Colorado75bronc]

Me too! Let us know!!

[ZOSO]

we taking this one to moab then?

[landshark]

we taking this one to moab then?

Perhaps, perhaps ;)