Airbur's 427W Build Thread

[Justin]

Nice! Glad to hear it's trucking along, welcome back!

[Colorado75bronc]

Awesome, as for the belt, I'd recommend you either try the factory motorcraft belt from a ford dealer, or a trick I learned is to take a piece of tire chalk and hold it against the front and back of the belt as the engine is running, it'll turn the belt somewhat white or yellow depending on the chalk color but it does work well, I generally only use it to diagnose that it is infact a serp belt causing the noise, I've always had good luck with oem belts over aftermarket, so you might try the ford belt, and if it begins to squeak I believe they'll warranty it for sometime


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[airbur]

I check out a Ford version of the belt. I've been using the good quality Gates green stripe belts. I replaced it with another and the squeal went away but then came back a short while afterward.

[Viperwolf1]

How do the indicator marks on the tensioner look? That will let you know if the belt length is a problem.

[airbur]

I hadn't thought about those. Actually haven't thought about them since I installed the tensioner. I'll check it out tomorrow. Is there a proper indication?

[Viperwolf1]

I think there are 3 marks. 2 are close together and the pointer mark should be between them on a new belt. The 3rd mark is further away and tells you when the belt is stretched too much or is too long.

[EFI Guy]

Welcome back.

I tossed a little something for the skinny pedal in your mail box.

[airbur]

Oh boy....new tune! Does this one have afterburners?:)

[airbur]

I don't think mine has any marks. It's a new aftermarket unit. What do the marks look like? Are they the triangles like on this Motorcraft one? Would it tend to squeal with the belt to tight or to loose?

[Rox Crusher]

I don't think mine has any marks. It's a new aftermarket unit. What do the marks look like? Are they the triangles like on this Motorcraft one? Would it tend to squeal with the belt to tight or to loose?

I think the belt will squeal if it is too lose or misaligned.

I think the bearing could squeal of belt is too tight.

[airbur]

Yea...that's what I was thinking. But since it only squeals on startup, I think once the belt heats up a little, it loosens and the squeal goes away. And when I say on startup only, it really is only like 3-5 seconds and then it goes away.

[Rox Crusher]

Yea...that's what I was thinking. But since it only squeals on startup, I think once the belt heats up a little, it loosens and the squeal goes away. And when I say on startup only, it really is only like 3-5 seconds and then it goes away.

Speaking from experience, those few seconds can be the most aggravatingly embarrassing of EB ownership

[airbur]

Speaking from experience, those few seconds can be the most aggravatingly embarrassing of EB ownership

LOL....exactly! Hence why I need to fix it asap:)

[Viperwolf1]

Yea...that's what I was thinking. But since it only squeals on startup, I think once the belt heats up a little, it loosens and the squeal goes away. And when I say on startup only, it really is only like 3-5 seconds and then it goes away.

Speaking from experience, those few seconds can be the most aggravatingly embarrassing of EB ownership

Especially with a carb on a bumpy trail.

[Viperwolf1]

I don't think mine has any marks. It's a new aftermarket unit. What do the marks look like? Are they the triangles like on this Motorcraft one? Would it tend to squeal with the belt to tight or to loose?

The 3 pointers at the top and the triangle at the front are the marks. The tensioner provides all the tension as long as the belt is the right length. If it's too long the tensioner will run out of travel and won't provide enough tension.

Squeal at startup only points to alternator pulley slipping. How many amps is it?

[airbur]

I checked it a while ago and amps were fine (can't remember the exact #). I also hooked up my 4Runner's battery (jumped) and started the Bronco and it still squealed. Not sure if that was a good test or not though.

[Viperwolf1]

I checked it a while ago and amps were fine (can't remember the exact #). I also hooked up my 4Runner's battery (jumped) and started the Bronco and it still squealed. Not sure if that was a good test or not though.

As I recall you have something like a 200 amp alternator. What happens when cranking is the battery voltage drops to somewhere between 10-11V. The alternator sees this low voltage and goes to full charge mode. This causes the belt to squeal. A bigger alt pulley can hold the belt better.

Ford diesels get around this problem by not turning on the alternator until about 5 seconds after starting. The batteries voltage recovers in this time and the alternator can put out a slower charge.

[airbur]

I actually replaced the alternator with one that has a larger pulley. No difference so far.

Is there a way to restrict the alternator current from reaching the battery for say 5 seconds or so? I don't know what that type of hardware would be called.

If I disconnect the alternator from the battery, will I still be able to start it? Thinking that would be a good test.

[Viperwolf1]

Just pull the plug on the top of the alternator to test. You would need some kind of timed relay for the delay. I don't know of any in the aftermarket auto industry. I think the Ford version is computer controlled. Maybe Garry can find a way to do that with an unused output in the ECM?

[airbur]

Just pulled the plug and started it. It squealed just a tiny bit, much less than normal. This makes me think I have two issues. The alternator one and maybe a misalignment in the belt somewhere?

[Viperwolf1]

Might just be a length or misalignment issue that is made worse with the load of the alternator.

[airbur]

Guess I'll get one size larger belt and try that. I think the next size is to large though.

[EFI Guy]

The A9L does already have code in it to delay alternator charging, the bigger question would be if it actually has the hardware inside to support it. A reman unit might, I doubt an OE would. It also looks like you could get creative with either the thermactor or A/C settings to do the same thing. I wouldn't try it unless you run out of other options though.

I have to agree that it's probably just a tension or alignment issue made worse with the alternator load. Are you running an A/C delete pulley or just a shorter belt?

[airbur]

Just a shorter belt.

[Viperwolf1]

What belt length are you running now? The part number has the length in it.

[Viperwolf1]

The A9L does already have code in it to delay alternator charging, the bigger question would be if it actually has the hardware inside to support it. A reman unit might, I doubt an OE would. It also looks like you could get creative with either the thermactor or A/C settings to do the same thing. I wouldn't try it unless you run out of other options though.

Those Ford engineers were pretty smart. How did they know I would bring this question up 30 years after they designed it?

[EFI Guy]

The A9L does already have code in it to delay alternator charging, the bigger question would be if it actually has the hardware inside to support it. A reman unit might, I doubt an OE would. It also looks like you could get creative with either the thermactor or A/C settings to do the same thing. I wouldn't try it unless you run out of other options though.

Those Ford engineers were pretty smart. How did they know I would bring this question up 30 years after they designed it?

I honestly think they just threw a bunch of random crap that will never work in there just to obfuscate the code and keep people from reverse engineering as much as possible.

[airbur]

What belt length are you running now? The part number has the length in it.

Belt is K060870

Outside Circumference (In): 87.592 Inch
Outside Circumference (mm): 2225mm

[Viperwolf1]

K060870 sounds right. Should be 87.0". If you have any aftermarket pulleys there could be a difference in the required length. What I would do is mark the tensioner, take the belt off and see if the tensioner is working in the first half of it's travel.

[airbur]

K060870 sounds right. Should be 87.0". If you have any aftermarket pulleys there could be a difference in the required length. What I would do is mark the tensioner, take the belt off and see if the tensioner is working in the first half of it's travel.

I'll check it out later today. I'm pretty sure it is though as I've tried larger and smaller belts and this one seems to put the tensioner right in the middle of it's operating range.