Increasing flow from reservoir to Explorer pump.

[Jesus_man]

I believe he meant that his racer friends would rather buy Howe parts vs PSC (even if they were free)

Right; PSC offering to sponsor said racers and they responded "no thanks"! I have heard that several times myself. I think PSC is still good stuff, but Howe is a step above.

[airbur]

I gotcha. Well, I can't see that the reservoir itself makes much of a difference but who knows. I found this one that should mount in the same location but it's shorter so I could get the output higher.

http://www.circletracksupply.com/prc-la ... t-car.html

[Jesus_man]

Is your current supply line horizontal from the res to the pump or does it have to go uphill at all?

I did get a response back from my friend. He said high, short, vertical, big are what is needed to supply adequate volume. He ended up building his own res from 3" alum tube and putting his own bungs on it. But with a truggy, he has a lot more options than you.

Before throwing more money at it, I'd look long and hard at what you could do to temporarily raise your res up and try to recreate the issues before. If it seems better, then cut as much of the supply hose out as you can, reattach and see what happens.

[Rox Crusher]

The other thing that I think helped me is that the outlet on my reservoir is at a very slight angle rather than vertical.

This eliminates the need for the 90 which as Justin correctly indicated, may cause flow restrictions.

image.jpg

[airbur]

Is your current supply line horizontal from the res to the pump or does it have to go uphill at all?

I did get a response back from my friend. He said high, short, vertical, big are what is needed to supply adequate volume. He ended up building his own res from 3" alum tube and putting his own bungs on it. But with a truggy, he has a lot more options than you.

Before throwing more money at it, I'd look long and hard at what you could do to temporarily raise your res up and try to recreate the issues before. If it seems better, then cut as much of the supply hose out as you can, reattach and see what happens.

Supply line has a slight uphill with a couple curves. I know this is part of the problem. NVRSTK another member on here has the same reservoir and the same issues. He ended up mounting his at a slight angle....so it resembles Rox's outputs more.

I simply need to start with getting it higher so it's at or above the level of the pump's intake. Unfortunately, that will require moving it to the firewall most likely and building new hoses.

[airbur]

You can see in this one pic the incline...

[Rox Crusher]

Airbur, seeing those pics I agree you are on the right track

[airbur]

Airbur, seeing those pics I agree you are on the right track

Yep. It actually works fine except for when it's loaded hard. This is one of the nagging things I want to take care of before I take it off-road (on top of lockers etc).

[airbur]

These are pics of NVRSTK's Bronco. You can see that his reservoir is WAY higher than mine is. He has a 3" body lift and a raised hood.

[airbur]

I'm going to see how far I can raise the reservoir with the hood propped open. Limiting factor will be the return lines as they aren't any longer. I may make some new ones just for this test.

If I can verify a significant difference in performance this way, I'm going to drill a big hole in the hood so the reservoir can stick out!:)

I though about using a small hood vent scoop over the hole, but the location is to close to the main scoop.

[airbur]

I was able to raise the reservoir up about 3" today by just moving some of the hoses. Drove around a bit using the brakes hard and steering at the same time. I didn't notice any issues. The output on the reservoir and the input on the pump are level. So there's my problem. The only way to keep it like this is to cut a hole in the hood:(

[Rox Crusher]

Glad you confirmed the diagnosis.

Your kidding about the hole in the hood right ?

[airbur]

Glad you confirmed the diagnosis.

Your kidding about the hole in the hood right ?

I am actually contemplating it. Think I need to get it off road first and see if there are really issues.

If I could find a shorter reservoir I might do that. Or have one built. I was thinking something custom that mounts right in the OEM location, but that slopes downward towards the towards the rear.

[JGZ]

How much volume do you think that tank needs to have?I'm going to be doing this sometime in the future and dont want to have to use any body lift.I think it would clear my glass hood,but not sure on a stock hood.

[Gunnibronco]

Wild Horses is making a bracket to replace the stock Explorer pump with a Saginaw pump. I think I'd do this before messing with the Explorer PS pump.

http://www.wildhorses4x4.com/product/16340

[airbur]

Interesting. But it only has 1 return and no AN fittings. Also, something about that install/bracket/doesn't seem as stout as the Explorer's.

[Gunnibronco]

Saginaw pumps can be had with 1 or 2 returns. I don't think they are going to be AN though. I'm not sure how stout the brackets need to be. The Saginaw pump has a better reputation than the Explorer pump.

[Justin]

The dual returns on a Sagniaw aren't AN, although you could have someone weld AN fittings on it. Really at that point, you could just mod any Saginaw housing. Now that I think about it, I may need to do that to mine. I've got the WH v-belt Sag bracket. It's plenty stout.

[Viperwolf1]

Glad you confirmed the diagnosis.

Your kidding about the hole in the hood right ?

Snorkle.

[Rox Crusher]

If I could find a shorter reservoir I might do that. Or have one built. I was thinking something custom that mounts right in the OEM location, but that slopes downward towards the towards the rear.

Could you have someone mod the current one to be shorter ?

[airbur]

If I could find a shorter reservoir I might do that. Or have one built. I was thinking something custom that mounts right in the OEM location, but that slopes downward towards the towards the rear.

Could you have someone mod the current one to be shorter ?

Would need to be a good 3" shorter and I'm afraid that would cut down on fluid to much.

[casadejohnson]

Wild Horses is making a bracket to replace the stock Explorer pump with a Saginaw pump. I think I'd do this before messing with the Explorer PS pump.

http://www.wildhorses4x4.com/product/16340

I'll let you know how well that bracket works in the near future. I have F'd around with the explorer pump long enough and it works pretty good except when you really need it. I have tried no less than 6 explorer pumps on mine and all worked OK but none worked great. I even tried the Wild horses extreme pump that PSC makes and it was actually worse than the reman explorer pump that it replaced, we changed pulley sizes and all sorts of things before I sent it back for a refund. I have also run the stock explorer reservoir and built two different dual return reservoirs that helped but did not solve the problem. Before I converted to the Explorer front dress I ran a junkyard dual return saginaw and it never struggled to to turn 35's and run my hydroboost even at very low RPM's. As soon as I find a gap in this sub arctic weather and a few extra dollars in the Bronco fund I'll be ordering the bracket.

[airbur]

I'll let you know how well that bracket works in the near future. I have F'd around with the explorer pump long enough and it works pretty good except when you really need it. I have tried no less than 6 explorer pumps on mine and all worked OK but none worked great. I even tried the Wild horses extreme pump that PSC makes and it was actually worse than the reman explorer pump that it replaced, we changed pulley sizes and all sorts of things before I sent it back for a refund. I have also run the stock explorer reservoir and built two different dual return reservoirs that helped but did not solve the problem. Before I converted to the Explorer front dress I ran a junkyard dual return saginaw and it never struggled to to turn 35's and run my hydroboost even at very low RPM's. As soon as I find a gap in this sub arctic weather and a few extra dollars in the Bronco fund I'll be ordering the bracket.

Yikes....that doesn't sound fun. If I weren't seriously considering AC in the future, I'd be more willing to try a different bracket.

I'm surprised you've had that much trouble with the Explorer pump. All in all it works pretty good for me. Is more of your use hardcore crawling/4x4 stuff?

[casadejohnson]

I'll let you know how well that bracket works in the near future. I have F'd around with the explorer pump long enough and it works pretty good except when you really need it. I have tried no less than 6 explorer pumps on mine and all worked OK but none worked great. I even tried the Wild horses extreme pump that PSC makes and it was actually worse than the reman explorer pump that it replaced, we changed pulley sizes and all sorts of things before I sent it back for a refund. I have also run the stock explorer reservoir and built two different dual return reservoirs that helped but did not solve the problem. Before I converted to the Explorer front dress I ran a junkyard dual return saginaw and it never struggled to to turn 35's and run my hydroboost even at very low RPM's. As soon as I find a gap in this sub arctic weather and a few extra dollars in the Bronco fund I'll be ordering the bracket.

Yikes....that doesn't sound fun. If I weren't seriously considering AC in the future, I'd be more willing to try a different bracket.

I'm surprised you've had that much trouble with the Explorer pump. All in all it works pretty good for me. Is more of your use hardcore crawling/4x4 stuff?

That's correct, I don't have issues on the street for the most part. When I have issues is when I'm wheeling. If I'm going down hill and on the brakes (at low RPM because I'm not on the gas), it gets to the point where I loose most of my power steering. Add a hard turn and I'm having to go hand over hand to turn the wheel. I refused to believe that the problem was in the pump for a long time because I know others have had minimal issues with the same setup. I have even gone so far as to swap out the steering box twice. The first time I built a new box for it and the second time I swapped in the box from my 66 because it has worked flawlessly for several years. I did a little experiment using my hand throttle. If I keep the RPM's up around 1200 I have no problems at all. I think that the extreme pump I tried from wild horses was just a fluke, PSC even offered to rebuild it again at no cost but I was so frustrated with it I just gave up and returned it. I spoke with them and Wild Horses at length about the problem and Wild Horses did tell me that they were going to try to develop another bracket that would accommodate the AC pump. As you mentioned, the Saginaw is not conducive to AN fittings on the return line side. I plan to get around that by using compression fittings on the return line tubes. I'll let you know how it works out once I make the swap.

[landshark]

I believe you can swap the rear reservoir on a Saginaw with one that has an fittings. I did it on my full size for my hydro assist. I don't remember who I bought it from but I will look.

Will this work? This is the one I used.

https://www.polyperformance.com/shop/PS ... 29314.html

[casadejohnson]

I believe you can swap the rear reservoir on a Saginaw with one that has an fittings. I did it on my full size for my hydro assist. I don't remember who I bought it from but I will look.

Will this work? This is the one I used.

https://www.polyperformance.com/shop/PS ... 29314.html

Interesting ! i wonder if they make that in the larger "Canned ham" style reservoir ? Looks like I have some googling to do.

[Justin]

I did some and didn't find anything. Let me know if you do. If nothing else you could pull the housing off a junked car.

[airbur]

I was just reading a thread on CB.com regarding replacing all the Explorer pump internals with internals from a diesel unit? Anyone heard of this? The guys say it's awesome and they don't have any more issues.

[ZOSO]

the diesel pump probably does flow more but I feel its still not enough. Atleast on my truck. The diesel does have to run hydroboost and steering. Plus it has 1000+ lbs over the front tires.

[casadejohnson]

I was just reading a thread on CB.com regarding replacing all the Explorer pump internals with internals from a diesel unit? Anyone heard of this? The guys say it's awesome and they don't have any more issues.

I'm pretty sure that the PSC pump I tried is exactly that. Lars over on Classic Broncos did some experimenting with this as well. You might do some searching to see what he did.