Brake bleeding

[phyler]

Evidently I just suck at it. Swapped my fronts from drums to disk and can't get it to bleed right. I did the all Ford swap with Thunderbird calipers. Was previously corrected that I had the calipers on the wrong sides. Fixed that and still can't get it done.

I get it to the point where I'll get two good pumps with no air bubbles then the third try always has air. If you pump the pedal it firms up nicely but that first stab always goes to the floor.

I've double checked all the lines and all are tight. The system worked well with the drums. I'm not sure where to go next. Do I just start at the beginning and "bench bleed" the master while on the truck? The rears bleed just fine. Want to finish this project up since it has taken me forever.

Thanks.

Adam

[Gunnibronco]

If you have the time gravity bleed. Just open the bleeder at one wheel and let it run through. I was having horrible problems getting mine bled, and gravity bleeding worked the best.

Obviously any fluid leak at any joint will make bleeding impossible.

[Viperwolf1]

Definitely start by bleeding the master cylinder. Don't let it go dry when bleeding the brakes.

[Justin]

I'll second Gunni's suggestion. I'd try gravity bleeding before I pulled the lines off the master to bench bleed it. The other thing that has worked well for me is to do the initial part of the bleeding with a hand vacuum pump. Start with the brake farthest from the master and work your way to the closest one. I've also had it take me over a quart of fluid to get the system bled from dry.

[phyler]

Well, I'm well past a quart if I include the amount of time with the calipers backwards. I can give the gravity bleeding a try. I won't have time to do the master until the weekend. I have speed bleeders on the front now which has helped since I don't have to ask my wife to sit there and pump the pedal forever. :) I'll report back after I try each. I have the stuff to do bench bleeding so not a huge issue but just an extra step.

Thanks!

[Kinder]

I don't know if I'd trust the speed bleeders, I treat them just like any other bleed valve.

[ZOSO]

Also a big big mistake most people do is pumping the pedal. DO NOT pump the pedal. Just one push and crack the bleeder. then release and press. crack bleeder. And so on. Pumping the pedal between cavitates the master cyl and will make your job a lot harder. It breaks up the bubbles into tiny little buggers that are almost impossible to get out.

[Gunnibronco]

Also a big big mistake most people do is pumping the pedal. DO NOT pump the pedal. Just one push and crack the bleeder. then release and press. crack bleeder. And so on. Pumping the pedal between cavitates the master cyl and will make your job a lot harder. It breaks up the bubbles into tiny little buggers that are almost impossible to get out.

+1

[Justin]

x2 on speed bleeders as well. I haven't had good luck with them. That may be your problem. I also often bleed the system a little, then let it sit for a few hours. It lets all the little bubbles float to the top and turn into big bubbles that are easier to get out.

[phyler]

Well, it has sat for weeks/months at a time. :) Thanks to work, cold, family, etc, this has been an off/on again project since November. I have always hated this part of brakes. I'll keep my eye on the speed bleeders and try to treat them like regular bleeders. They definitely seemed to have helped a little (definitely from the happiness of the wife since I wasn't asking her to spend time listening to me say "up, down" :) ). I'll get after it on Saturday for sure unless I can get out of work early one night. I have 3 night's booked already this week. Sheesh.

[Justin]

If you keep running into trouble I might be able to swing by and help for an hour after work one day this week.

[phyler]

Thanks Justin. I'll see if I can clear my late day schedule on Wednesday or Thursday. Have to find out what time I need to work on Friday night. Maybe it will be late enough that I can get some garage time in before hand.

[Justin]

Sounds good. Wednesday or Thursday will be way better for me. My last day at the current job is Thursday.

[phyler]

OK, so things are now worse after bench bleeding the master. I definitely got air out of it by doing it but after bleeding all four corners twice, I can no longer pump up the brakes. I'm open to thoughts here. I have no idea why I struggle with this task so badly. It seems like it should be a straight forward process.

[Gunnibronco]

That sucks its not going well.

I had the worst time getting my brakes bled after swapping axles. Be patient. I kept trying to blame bad parts, but in the end it was just air. It was super frustrating.

Look for ANY fluid seeping at EVERY joint.

Buy at least a few quarts of fluid. Anytime I've bought a little bottle, because I was sure I was close, I was wrong.

Good luck.

[phyler]

Yeah, totally frustrated. On the bright side, the entire system has new fluid in it. I know that's the first time for that in way too long.

My plan is to go pick up a vacuum pump from harbor freight. I've got almost an entire large bottle of fluid into it so far with another waiting.

All the joints are dry and have been thankfully. I'm pretty sure it's still just air in the system but just amazed at how hard it's been too get out.

[Kinder]

Well you aren't too far north of Denver, I hope a northern'ish guy can come up your way to lend a hand. Have you tried to gravity bleed the system yet? Basically open up all the bleed valves and close them as the fluid appears, keep an eye on the master cylinder. If that doesn't work in conjunction with regular brake pedal bleeding then you have either a loose connection letting air in or a bad master cylinder.

[phyler]

Yeah, I've done the gravity bleed. I get fluid immediately at all four corners. I'm wondering if I just blew the master. It is 20 years old. I know I replaced it back in high school. :-)

[phyler]

So, finally back in town and picked up a vacuum pump. Wow. Got it better very fast. Still a few issues but I can pump the pedal once or twice and get it firm again. I'm tossing the speed bleeder and will pick up a normal one tomorrow. I think one I get that one bled, it should be pretty good again. At least that is what I'm hoping for. I want to move on from this project.

[phyler]

It's done! Finally. One of the benefits of working from home, I was able to split out to the garage during lunch and installed the new bleeder and then bled all four wheels again. Pedal is good. If I stab it like an emergency, it feels strong and if I give it a pump right away, I don't feel any difference.

Thank you to all who gave advice. The vacuum pump did the trick. Now I feel a bit more confident in it for when I go to swap on the Explorer rear disc stuff at some point.

[Gunnibronco]

Nice, glad you got it!