351 EFI OEM vs NEW

[Strike2]

So I have reviewed all the EFI threads on CCB, along with internet info, the "inject your horse" is the best I've found so far but still kind of confusing it seems there is no one donor veichle for the parts needed To convert a carb 351. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I would like to get JY parts for the EFI conversion or there are even some low cost crown Vic's or explorers on CL are the OEM parts worth getting or by the time you get all the parts needed is a FITech/ Holley EFI carb worth looking into? Does anyone here run that setup.

I would like to start gathering parts now but Im somewhat dazed and confused at the moment .

[pgilbeau]

I was going to go with the factory fuel injection set ups but opted to get the Fitech. Once I get my motor back together it will be running the Fitech instead of the Holley Injection it had when I got it. I personally started to feel like it was going to cost me just as much if not more for the factory EFI. It all depends how you do it and what you run. If you start looking for things like lightening lower intakes and stuff the costs add up quick. Just my 2 cents but for me the Fitech fits what I have and is good up to 600hp so its much easier in my case.

[Strike2]

Thanks pgilbeau,
I'm not looking at increasing HP on the 351 I would just like the simplicity of EFI, and coming from a XJ 4.0 I'm hoping it will do much better going up I-70. I'll be interested in your opion on the fitech as it looks to be worth the money. Are you running a 351 as well?

[Rox Crusher]

I'm a fan of the OEM parts route as replacement parts are readily available and the breadth of knowledge is much better.

There is a thread about FiTech system on CB.com

http://classicbroncos.com/forums/showth ... 25&page=21

[Eck]

What are your plans with the 351? I just got done upgrading mine with GT40 heads and a roller cam because I was unhappy with the ability to drive I-70 with the stockish setup. I have OEM EFI and will admit that it's not cheap but do agree with Rox that parts are readily available and a lot of people locally are running that setup.


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[pgilbeau]

I am currently running a 302 and will be going to a 351 later in the year, my plans are a bit different as I may even go with a stroked motor. I will agree that finding stock replacement parts is easier.

[Strike2]

[quote="Eck"]What are your plans with the 351? I just got done upgrading mine with GT40 heads and a roller cam because I was unhappy with the ability to drive I-70 with the stockish setup. I have OEM EFI and will admit that it's not cheap but do agree with Rox that parts are readily available and a lot of people locally are running that setup.

My plans for the 351 was to just clean it up with EFI I'm really not interested in "go fast" parts at this time unless I need it and have ready that heads are the best bang for the money in HP gain. What was your average speed (302 or 351) going up I-70. My friends dad purchased it back in the 80's and never got a chance to install it. The tag says it's rebuilt but I've yet to confirm that for the meantime I hope to just run the stock 302 since it only has 13K on the motor.

I hoping over the next several months to attend some Meet & Greets and get some advise on a parts list and weigh out the pros/cons of OEM or FITech along with checking out some Broncos in person. I pretty lucky as I work somewhat close to the UPAP and have been known to spend my lunch hours there scouting out parts.

[Rox Crusher]

I am currently running a 302 and will be going to a 351 later in the year, my plans are a bit different as I may even go with a stroked motor. I will agree that finding stock replacement parts is easier.

Stroker lust......you can never have too much horsepower

[airbur]

I am currently running a 302 and will be going to a 351 later in the year, my plans are a bit different as I may even go with a stroked motor. I will agree that finding stock replacement parts is easier.

Stroker lust......you can never have too much horsepower

Ahhh...you can drive mine anytime Rox. ;)

[Eck]

My plans for the 351 was to just clean it up with EFI I'm really not interested in "go fast" parts at this time unless I need it and have ready that heads are the best bang for the money in HP gain. What was your average speed (302 or 351) going up I-70. My friends dad purchased it back in the 80's and never got a chance to install it. The tag says it's rebuilt but I've yet to confirm that for the meantime I hope to just run the stock 302 since it only has 13K on the motor.

I also wasn't necessarily looking for a "go fast" engine build either. I purchased the 351W from another member here and it too had been rebuilt when I bought it. The engine was clean and running well, but it had stock heads on it which were very restricting. It did fine around town and on flat stretches of highway, but climbing mountain passes on I-70 were a whole other story. It was frustrating that I couldn't really keep up with middle lane traffic and would be stuck either downshifting into VERY high RPM to try to keep up or would get stuck behind the big rigs.

If you aren't that concerned with more power and the GO FAST stuff, you may consider sprucing up your 302, selling the 351W and use that to invest into whatever EFI setup you decide to go with. There are also a lot of things like which transmission you plan to use, axle gearing, tire size, etc. that will play a factor into which direction you need to go with the engine in order to get the desired outcomes you are looking for.

Good Luck and let me know if you have any other questions. I went from a stock 302 to a stock 351W with Ford Explorer EFI, to now a moderately upgraded 351W with the same EFI...

[Strike2]

Thanks Eck,
Two of the down sides on getting the Bronco was no EFI and the 302/351 HP compared to a 4.0 HO. I may have to just stay in the slow lane since I will be switching to AT, 4.88 on 35's just like my last build, your right lots to consider and I hope to get a better understanding once I'm able to see other CCB rigs.
So what year of Explorer uppers are you running, and what lower did you go with on the 351?

[Viperwolf1]

The drawback to a 351w is the cost of an efi intake manifold. You can run the cheap explorer upper but you need the expensive lightning lower. Aftermarket intake is another choice. The truck (non-lightning) intakes are just too tall. All the other parts costs are very similar between 351w and 302. A 351w is basically a factory stroked 302.

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[Strike2]

Sounds like I need to make a choice between two evils lol, just a wild thought but the money spent on a EFI maybe better spent on a set of 351 heads and keep the carb and have it well tuned?
Thanks for everyone feedback it's got me needed to make a new spreadsheet.

[Gunnibronco]

Combine our altitude and off camber crawling, IMO a carb is out of the question. Too much vapor lock due to altitude, and flooding/stalling when a carb runs at high angles.

My two cents regarding aftermarket vs factory stuff. When I got my truck 20+ years ago, I was a youngster. First thing I did was rip all the FoMoCo stuff off, and replace it with shiny stuff from Summit racing. I later found out the old 2bbl Ford carb was considered a better off-road carb than my Edelbrock (not to mention the POS Holly Pro-jection I tried before giving up and putting on an Edelbrock). I found out the Ford locking hubs were better than the Mile Marker hubs I bought. I found out the Dura-spark ignition was a pretty solid ignition system. Through the years, what failed? Edelbrock mechanical fuel pumps, MSD ignition parts, Mile Marker hubs. I think this is directly related to the size of the company building the parts & how many are produced. Edelbrock, MSD, Mile Marker, etc are tiny little companies compared to the mighty Ford Motor Company. This means their R&D departments are much smaller than Ford's. It also means that if they put out a bad design, they don't have as substantial a warranty/repair bill as Ford would. After all these years, I've taken almost all those shiny Summit racing parts off my truck, and replaced them with FoMoCo parts. There is obviously the problem with cheap Chinese sensors, TFI modules, clutch master cylinders, etc causing problems. But you are starting with a very well built & designed product, that was used in hundreds of thousands, if not millions of vehicles. That is something the Holly, Edelbrock, etc cannot say.

[Rox Crusher]

Strike2

Pm me your email and I will send you a spreadsheet that documents most of the costs associated with OEM EFI.

[Strike2]

Thanks Gunnibronco
I appreciate the response, I'm somewhat seasoned my self and have been guilty of the "glittery" parts in past builds. Dependability is my first priority as I pride myself in not just throwing something together or you could call it stubborn so your OEM/R&D points are well taking.


I'm only 4-5 years into this 4x4 scene along with any forum info. I built my last rig reading magazines and researching the internet with no actually local feedback so when I made the decision to get/build a bronco I knew right from the start to get on a forum and start asking question and not go this alone. I hope to benefit from everyone's learning's and talents regarding Bronco's along with hopefully bringing some of my strengths and resources to the group.

[Eck]

Thanks Eck,
Two of the down sides on getting the Bronco was no EFI and the 302/351 HP compared to a 4.0 HO. I may have to just stay in the slow lane since I will be switching to AT, 4.88 on 35's just like my last build, your right lots to consider and I hope to get a better understanding once I'm able to see other CCB rigs.
So what year of Explorer uppers are you running, and what lower did you go with on the 351?

I found a 96 Explorer donor in the JY and used that for the upper intake as well as all of the fuel rail, throttle body, front serpentine dress, and wiring harness and computer. For the lower on my 351, I was able to find a lightning lower intake on Ebay for around $300.

[Strike2]

Strike2

Pm me your email and I will send you a spreadsheet that documents most of the costs associated with OEM EFI.

PM Sent.

That for the Info Eck, Your set up is one I will look forward to seeing !

[Justin]

If you go for factory EFI, keep an eye out for aftermarket intakes as well. I scored my Edelbrock for less than most Lightning lowers go for.

[sykanr0ng]

There was one cast iron 'GT40' lower on eBay a day or two ago, it was $649
The cast iron were for boats and cheaper usually.

The aftermarket manifolds do not match up.

Cost wise a stroker is making more sense to me.

[EFI Guy]

There was just a big discussion about this on faceyspacey with lots of differing opinions. I'm biased towards OEM Explorer stuff myself.

Linky...https://www.facebook.com/groups/85662735276/10157844303755277/?comment_id=10157850018430277

[ZOSO]

I too had this same thought only due to the price of the lower lightning intake. But my mind was made up when I found mine and got a stupid good deal on everything. The factory setup may run you more money but well worth it. Not to mention we have the efi guru local to us so it's even better.

[Strike2]

There was just a big discussion about this on faceyspacey with lots of differing opinions. I'm biased towards OEM Explorer stuff myself.

Linky...https://www.facebook.com/groups/85662735276/10157844303755277/?comment_id=10157850018430277

Thanks for the link, I may just have to breakdown in 2017 and join FB if there is more Bronco info.
I leaning towards OEM EFI I just need to check out a couple of rigs at some M&G great info so far !! THANKS

[Strike2]

After some more researching and talking to some CCB members I think my plans may have changed. I'm thinking it makes more sense for now to simply just run and convert the 302 to EFI for now and just hold on to the 351 for a later upgrade. So with that said I've been scouting out the JY for an explorer donor. So I have a couple of questions

1) I've been told that a upper 96-98 Explorer is a good EFI candidate for the 19lb injectors along with the fuel pressure regulator on the fuel rail. are all 96-98 5.0 explorers coil pack systems, and are you removing all the wiring just to the firewall connection?

2) Should I also be looking at the same donor for the front end parts to gain a serpentine setup?

3) I read that explorers from 1996 and newer all came with the 4R70W but changes were made in 98 are these transmissions considered better? or since I will more than likely have it rebuilt is getting a 96-97 transmission a concern?

I understand I will need to modify the harness/computer along with a multiple of parts to swap engine and trans over, I'm just thinking does it make sense to gather a 96-98 EFI upper parts and then look for a 98 or newer transmissions or should I be looking on CL (some are less than 1000) for a complete 1996-1998 5.0 A/T Explorer and if so is there anything I should be aware of while looking at potential donors ?

[Eck]

1) That is correct-- if you are going to be running the 302 for the time being, you can use just about everything from the lower intake manifold up. My understanding is that the 96 Throttle Body is the best one to use because it has the lowest profile. See the picture below (thanks EFIGuy) for what wires to pull. Also, I encourage you to see the thread on CB.com if you haven't already: http://classicbroncos.com/forums/showth ... p?t=257251

96-97 EFI harness.jpg

You will also want to pull all wires to the injectors. You will also want to source 2 of the green O2 sensors located on the underside/exhaust of the Explorer.

2) You can use the same donor for the serpentine but if for some reason stuff is missing off the donor, you can use any 5.0 96-98 Explorer or Mountaineer for the Serpentine setup.

3) I will leave this to the transmission guru (s) to respond.

I would say that if all you are wanting from an engine are the EFI parts and Serpentine parts, pulling from a JY should cost you about $500-$600. I would personally not buy the injectors from the JY and just buy a refurbished set (they are available for around $100 on eBay and come fully cleaned tested, and new gaskets). The transmission adds about another $125 from the JY. The downside is obviously working at the JY during winter.

Sounds like you have a good plan. This will also give you the time to look for deals on parts and plan out your 351W build. Most everything should transfer over with the exception of the lower intake. Depending on what current heads you have on your 351W engine, you may also consider taking the GT40 (P) heads from whatever Explorer donor you take from.

[Strike2]

1)

2) You can use the same donor for the serpentine but if for some reason stuff is missing off the donor, you can use any 5.0 96-98 Explorer or Mountaineer for the Serpentine setup.

Sounds like you have a good plan. This will also give you the time to look for deals on parts and plan out your 351W build. Most everything should transfer over with the exception of the lower intake. Depending on what current heads you have on your 351W engine, you may also consider taking the GT40 (P) heads from whatever Explorer donor you take from.

Thanks so much for the feedback Eck,

That link is very helpful as I haven't ran across that one, I printed if off for my "book of knowledge" lol. I will check out the video links once I get home. I hit up the JY yesterday and still in a daze at looking at the Ford section/motors as I'm trying to deprogram myself from the Jeep world I use to live in. I will read it once I get home as I'm heading out to pick up my CBB Calendar !!!

Let see's what the Transmission team says as I'm still waiting on 2 CL leads , 1 was sold another was a V-6.
Thanks again,
Steve

[Viperwolf1]

The 98 and newer 4r70w is better. You can upgrade the older ones though.

[Eck]

I'm heading over there shortly with my Bronco if you want to hang around to see it.


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[66Crawler]

The other option not mentioned for the 351 FI swap is to run a truck lower with a BC Broncos adapter that adapts a Mustang upper.

It will not flow as well as a GT40 set up but it is a pretty easy route to go and wont break the bank.

A few guys have also had pretty good luck with the Howell FI stuff. It isn't Ford OEM but most of the parts are Chebby OEM so they are easy to get.

Like others have said OEM might cost a little more upfront but it is worth it if you can break down anyplace with an auto parts store and get what you need to fix it.

[Strike2]

Thanks Viperwolf1 on the transmission info, and 66 Crawler on the intake option.
I was able to check out Eck's and Landsharks broncos the other day, these were the first EB that I've had the chance to see up close and in person and got some great insight from both of them Thanks Guys !