Full width axle swap 76 f150

[rooster]

Hey guys, been a while since posting on this board,

I recently picked up a HP dana 44 and big bearing 9" from a 76 f150.

I have a couple of questions about the swap, first off can I swap over the ARB I already have in my 44 now being that it is a low pinnion axle? Shouldn't matter correct?

Also the gearing is a 3.50 and I need to swap to 4.11 to match the 3rd members I will be putting in the rear, I have no experience swapping a R&P , do you think it would be easier/ cheaper to try and trade my front axle for one already set up with that ratio?

,mine was the weld on wedges , I wouldn't be opposed to just moving the spring towers outward but wanted to see what everyone was doing in regards to moving wedges in vs towers out. Also have BNG long arms

Thanks

[pgilbeau]

I can't speak for the ARB but there are differences between high/low pinion Detroits so I would suspect there may be differences for the ARB.

[cravenbronco]

My guess would be that low/high pinion are totally different animal's. That's what I have ran into with my 44 swap. But not totally sure on a ARB.


I found out front range driveline will install everything for $250 that's with me supplying all the parts.
D44 front end low pinion

[Justin]

I am running the arb that was in my low pinion stock housing in my high pinion 77 f150 housing. Works great. $250 is a good price to set up a d44. If you've got a powerful welder I'd move the wedges in, otherwise I'd move the towers out. I just like avoiding the additional torsional load on the rails, but it's not really a big deal.

[DLB]

Not the gospel and take it for whats it's worth, however I have been working on a full size axle swap myself maybe over researched it. You be the judge:

1. The carrier should swap HP or not - it's the gear cut that's different. An HP is reverse rotation.

2. If your going to go from 3.50 to 4.11 the carrier will not work on a D44 the pinion cut is smaller (if I remember right) making for
a thicker ring gear. You'll need a carrier for 3.9 something and up. If you are dead set on 4.11 and you can find someone with
what your looking for and not having to be totally redone and they are willing to trade. Potential rebuild vs replace everything.

3. I split the difference, moved the wedges in to line up with duff extended spring towers - Yet to be installed.

Good luck

[Digger]

Hey guys, been a while since posting on this board,

I recently picked up a HP dana 44 and big bearing 9" from a 76 f150.

I have a couple of questions about the swap, first off can I swap over the ARB I already have in my 44 now being that it is a low pinnion axle? Shouldn't matter correct?

Also the gearing is a 3.50 and I need to swap to 4.11 to match the 3rd members I will be putting in the rear, I have no experience swapping a R&P , do you think it would be easier/ cheaper to try and trade my front axle for one already set up with that ratio?

,mine was the weld on wedges , I wouldn't be opposed to just moving the spring towers outward but wanted to see what everyone was doing in regards to moving wedges in vs towers out. Also have BNG long arms

Thanks

- Same ARB for low pinion and high pinion applications, however there is a carrier break at 3.73. So 3.50 gears would use the RD117, but 4.11 would use the RD116

- I would leave the wedges alone. Moving the spring buckets out is better for handling dynamics.

[Justin]

Listen to digger more than me. He's an engineer and stuff.

[rooster]

Thanks for all the great advice guys!

Great to hear I can reuse my ARB !
Ya the $250 isn't too bad to set up the 44, and the ARB locker had 4.11s on it in the old axle so I should just be able to buy the gears for that carrier ?

Also I will have a bronco 44 with disk brakes availability soon if anyone is interested

[Justin]

Yes, should. I went from 4.11 to 4.56 on mine with the swap. You might contact crawlercreations here to see what he's charging these days. He had a hand in mine and they run great.

[rooster]

Do you guys think that for a mildly juiced up 351 the 411s would work ok with 35s? Will also be running zf5 and plan on driving bronco 75 % street , 25% trail

Also how do you like full width axles for on road use?


Thanks

[ZOSO]

Do you guys think that for a mildly juiced up 351 the 411s would work ok with 35s? Will also be running zf5 and plan on driving bronco 75 % street , 25% trail

Also how do you like full width axles for on road use?


Thanks

4.11's and 35s would be fine in town. On the hwy it'll cruise real nice. My 4r70w with 4.10's and 33's cruises 65 at 2krpm. It is great in town but in the hills it could use a touch more gear. Altho I did run in od all the way home from fairplay. Didn't have any issues with running 1700-1800rpm up some of the passes.

[Justin]

It should work great. I probably run my rig about the same ratio of street and trail with 35's on 4.11s. There were lots of times I wished for an overdrive on the freeway (3200ish rpm at 65 or 70). You'll need to downshift for any real hill, but that's a good tradeoff for the streetability. I'm running 4.56 with 37's now and am looking forward to getting my 351 and ZF5 swapped in for the same reason.

[rooster]

That is good to hear, just didn't know whether or not 4.56 was a worthy upgrade being as 35s will most likely be as big as I will go in the foreseeable future

Also I do own a220 welder so moving the wedges shouldn't be an issue , but if like has been mentioned spacing the buckets out makes it noticeably handle better I will go that route, just seems easier to cut and weld wedges .

How do you full width guys like them on the road, highway?

[Dirtheadz]

once you go full width, you'll never go back. Loved my full widths, except the stream of water the outer edge of the tire throws(directly into your ear if your running door inserts). To me, just made by Bronc feel stable and had no problem taking corners/ offramps at 70 without the boxy/ tippy feeling. I welded Ballistic mounts (for cage arms) inboard (similar to moving the wedges in) versus the spring buckets out. Be sure to account/ correct camber for your amount of lift before welding the wedges back on. Just my $.02. Hell, don't listen to me, I dont even own a Bronco anymore (but I have owned 6!)

[Digger]

Do you guys think that for a mildly juiced up 351 the 411s would work ok with 35s? Will also be running zf5 and plan on driving bronco 75 % street , 25% trail

Also how do you like full width axles for on road use?
Thanks

4.11s with 35s will be just fine. I ran that combo, then went to 4.56s and 37s. With a mild 351W and a ZF5, I can cruise all day in OD with no issues. Pulling hills is no problem.

Full widths are nice for the street too. More stable, especially if you move the spring buckets out and/or add a sway bar.

[Justin]

x3 on full widths. Very happy with mine.

[rooster]

Good to hear guys, can't wait to get it going, now would be a good time to move the rear axle back an inch or so since I have to buy spring perches anyways, anyone use the anti wrap perches from ruffstuff with the offset holes??
I was also thinking about getting the dana 20 output updated shaft from WH that is an inch longer than stock so I shouldn't have to worry about my drive shaft

[Gunnibronco]

Love my full widths and extended radius arms. Awesome on and off road. I cant say from experience, but your plan for pushing the axle back with the d20 output sounds good. You can use Ruff stuffs normal spring perches and top plates, they are already drilled for 1" set back.

[Justin]

I don't think ruffstuff has perches in the stock bronco spring width, at least they didn't when I did mine. I used the ones from wild horses and drilled them.

[Gunnibronco]

You are right. I used 2.5" perches (I think) and welded some 1/8"x1/2" strap to each side to create a saddle for the spring to sit in. Pic is in my axle swap thread, or I can post one up when I get back into town. Weird they dont have a Bronco width spring perch.

[sykanr0ng]

Don't know when you looked but these 2.25 inch perches are currently in the RuffStuff catalog:

http://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com/catalog/R1991.html

[rooster]

Yep those are the ones I was looking at, I will most likely be using those, I thought I read somewhere that they lift the rear about 3/4 of an inch due to the taller perches but that will probably level out my truck if anything...

Do you guys think that moving the rear axle back an inch is needed with 35s? Or a worthy upgrade?

[Gunnibronco]

Nice, they didn't make those when I did my swap. I'd definitely push the axle back.

[sykanr0ng]

I bought these intending to push the axle back and also get some anti-wrap as a side benefit:

http://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com/catalog/2PLUS.html

Since they are 2 1/2 inch wide I will use a few pieces of 7/8 o.d. x 5/8 i.d. d.o.m. to slide over the bolts and fill the gaps.

[Justin]

Pushing the axle back was worthwhile on mine. Probably not much performance difference, but it centered the tire in the wheelwell better.

[rooster]

Ok cool that is the route I will be going then


I also would like to take this opportunity to do a TRO conversion, I was wondering what you guys would suggest, I was planning on doing the ch*** 1ton TRES but not sure yet, I know that ruffstuff makes tapered inserts and all you need to do is drill the knuckle out to 3/4 , which would probably be the easiest solution, but it seems like the sleeve will wallow out the knuckle after a while. Also would like to keep cost low as possible...

I figure I'm already in it this deep, might as well do it right the first time

[landshark]

I have been running the sleeves in my knuckles for about three years without an issue. Also have the chevy TRE's works great and replacements are not hard to find usually.

[Digger]

Those sleeves should be fine. They are split, so as you drive the taper in, the sleeves with spread out and sit tight in the hole you drilled. It will be important to drill a straight, clean hole with a drill press.

[rooster]

That's great guys, as I already have a 3/4 " metal bit and access to a press

How is everyone going about trac bars? I wanna make sure I cure all bump steering in this process.

Iwas tossing around the idea of possibly pushing the front axle forward an inch or so as the the BNG arms have some adjustment , but wouldn't this cause the trac bar bushings to bind ? Anyone ever make their own with hiem joints on either end to avoid that? Or am I just over thinking and complica6 things to much?


Thanks guys

[sykanr0ng]

Look up the Yorsten mod pioneered by Gary Yorsten.

I would not use heims on both ends, a urethane or rubber bushing will cushion shocks where a heim has no give.