www.ColoradoClassicBroncos.com

BroncoRaider wrote:That sucks. I was wondering a few days ago where all of this stood.

Yeah, and it's all complicated by the fact they can put a lien on my home, so I can't just go out and get things fixed myself. I have had some casual legal consultation, but not with a lawyer with this specialty. I think that day is coming sooner than later.

Chad,

You should get representation. Not only for piece of mind, but to put effective leverage on the builder. I worry this will drag on, at the builders discretion and you will be disappointed.

My 2 cents.

Rick

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rt9 wrote:Chad,

You should get representation. Not only for piece of mind, but to put effective leverage on the builder. I worry this will drag on, at the builders discretion and you will be disappointed.

My 2 cents.

Rick

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Until a week ago, I had a hope they would fix things, but they are now making it clear they have no intention of making things right.

I'd consult with a lawyer. May not need legal action yet, but would start acting as if it did. Better safe than sorry. Sucks you're dealing with this.

What Justin and Rick said

Chad, so sorry that you have to endure this sort of thing. It seems to me that you have a case if you decide to go the legal route. It may very well be worth your while to at least have a legal consultation and then maybe you could set up a meeting with the builder and blind side them when a lawyer walks in with you.

Jesus_man wrote:Chad, so sorry that you have to endure this sort of thing. It seems to me that you have a case if you decide to go the legal route. It may very well be worth your while to at least have a legal consultation and then maybe you could set up a meeting with the builder and blind side them when a lawyer walks in with you.

This company is out of Riverside, CA. There probably won't be a face to face meeting. Spoke to a lawyer last night, and there is a clause in the contract that all legal procedures must be done in Riverside. So any lawyer I use must also be licensed in CA. Just to add complication to the matter.

Gunnibronco wrote:

Jesus_man wrote:Chad, so sorry that you have to endure this sort of thing. It seems to me that you have a case if you decide to go the legal route. It may very well be worth your while to at least have a legal consultation and then maybe you could set up a meeting with the builder and blind side them when a lawyer walks in with you.

This company is out of Riverside, CA. There probably won't be a face to face meeting. Spoke to a lawyer last night, and there is a clause in the contract that all legal procedures must be done in Riverside. So any lawyer I use must also be licensed in CA. Just to add complication to the matter.

Does the contract call for mediation prior to legal ?

No mention of arbitration or mediation.

Chad - I am not a lawyer, I have not played one on TV nor did I spend the night in a holiday inn last night, so I recommend you speak to your local lawyer again and ask about the lien the builder could place on your home. That lien will have to be placed in the municipality where the building exists, this is typically a pretty easy process for the contractor to complete. And in my experience, it is also generally enough to loosen an owners pocketbook.

But from your side, if you do not pay (and by law there will be a specific number of days that they must give you when they file the lien, not very many - I have never seen longer than 120 days) - they will have to take you to court - in the local jurisdiction (where the home is located) and prove that you owe them money. If you are able to document that there are significant deficiencies and that they have not corrected those deficiencies which is why you are withholding payment, the builder will probably not be able to keep that lien in place and be required to release it.

Any lien against your property must be filed in the county where the property is located. Now the case will be in your local court and they will have to fight it in your state, not theirs.

Again - chat with your local attorney, preferably one who is experienced in construction contract law.

This really sucks and I am sorry you have to deal with it.

I am sorry you have to deal with this Chad. People can be such Jackasses.

Greg- sounds like maybe you at least stayed in a Holiday Inn Express last night...


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Greg, thanks for the good points about the lien locations & timing. My local lawyer friend agreed. I don't know what kind of time limit there is in NV for a lien. I'll check. I had to file a few 'intent to lien' notices while running my store in Gunnison. It always got me paid, but I had always delivered goods & services as agreed upon, so there was no argument that payment was due. It would be very interesting to see what the county would say about a lien placed on a building their own inspectors had agreed did not match the plans provided.

Thanks for all the kind words of support, everyone. I just want to get moved into my building and get back to work on my projects. Not to mention just have work & storage space I used to have in Colorado. Things are pretty cluttered in my house and garage, and it feels kind of like I'm still not moved in.

I received an email today stating 'I will hopefully have a solution for you tomorrow, let me see what I can get approved for this job site.' So we shall see what they come up with this time. I'm hopeful they will decide to make all the needed repairs, but it will surprise me if they actually do. Fingers are crossed.

EDIT: A quick google came up with this:
A mechanics lien in Nevada must be filed with the county recorder (in the county where the property is located) within 90 days of the date the lien claimant last provided labor and/or materials to the project or 90 days from the project's completion or termination ΓÇô whichever is later.
So they have until mid-February to file in my case.

I *think* this battle has ended. After 2.5 months, 25+ emails, and enormous frustration (including my credit card reversing my dispute & paying the company- WTF?), they actually came out and fixed the building today.

They sent a signed & stamped letter from the engineer that the legs could be raised on the posts and still meet strength requirements. They thought that would get them out of re-doing the building, but the engineer placed a maximum height of 2" in the letter. 4 of the 12 legs exceeded 2". So they had to drop & reslope the building. I don't love that the legs are still elevated in shear, and am considering welding the legs to the posts, or adding sleeves under to remove the weight from the fasteners. Part of me wants to submit the engineer's calculations to an independent engineer and see if numbers were fudged to make the building meet code.

They also respaced the legs on the end walls and replaced the exterior sheet metal on those walls.

I guess I was enough of a pain in their ass, that they finally caved. I did have a conversation with the builder who did the excavation and arranged for the concrete, and he suggested turning the case over to the Nevada State Contractor's Board. He said they would 'unleash the hounds of hell' upon the company. With the failed building inspection and email string I had, he thought I had a pretty good case. And I would avoid having to hire a lawyer and sue them in California. Glad it didn't come to that.

Now I'm going to call the inspector and have it reinspected. Hopefully I can move past this and actually start working on the building.

That is good news. I agree that some sort of spacer would make me feel better. Welding might weaken the steel??

Jesus_man wrote:That is good news. I agree that some sort of spacer would make me feel better. Welding might weaken the steel??

I don't think welding the steel will weaken it. I've been through a bunch of automotive welding certification classes in the last year. High strength steels become brittle and weaker with heat from welding, but mild steels are not compromised by the heat (we can't use mig welders on HSS & UHSS, just spot welders & mig brazing). I was thinking about stitching around the leg/tube intersection, and maybe throwing a couple plug welds in for good measure.

and/or

I have a bunch of the tubing left over from the build. I was thinking of cutting the correct length, then cutting that in 1/2 and placing it around the post, welding it under the leg & screwing it to the post.

IDK.

Gunnibronco wrote:I *think* this battle has ended. After 2.5 months, 25+ emails, and enormous frustration (including my credit card reversing my dispute & paying the company- WTF?), they actually came out and fixed the building today.

They sent a signed & stamped letter from the engineer that the legs could be raised on the posts and still meet strength requirements. They thought that would get them out of re-doing the building, but the engineer placed a maximum height of 2" in the letter. 4 of the 12 legs exceeded 2". So they had to drop & reslope the building. I don't love that the legs are still elevated in shear, and am considering welding the legs to the posts, or adding sleeves under to remove the weight from the fasteners. Part of me wants to submit the engineer's calculations to an independent engineer and see if numbers were fudged to make the building meet code.

They also respaced the legs on the end walls and replaced the exterior sheet metal on those walls.

I guess I was enough of a pain in their ass, that they finally caved. I did have a conversation with the builder who did the excavation and arranged for the concrete, and he suggested turning the case over to the Nevada State Contractor's Board. He said they would 'unleash the hounds of hell' upon the company. With the failed building inspection and email string I had, he thought I had a pretty good case. And I would avoid having to hire a lawyer and sue them in California. Glad it didn't come to that.

Now I'm going to call the inspector and have it reinspected. Hopefully I can move past this and actually start working on the building.

(including my credit card reversing my dispute & paying the company- WTF?)

All the company has to do is file a claim that they in fact provided what was paid for and the credit card company will eagerly pay out!


Glad your closing the books on this one!

Moab Mike wrote: (including my credit card reversing my dispute & paying the company- WTF?)

All the company has to do is file a claim that they in fact provided what was paid for and the credit card company will eagerly pay out!


Glad your closing the books on this one!

I realized this after several calls complaining to the billing dispute company. I honestly thought I lost the battle when this happened. Just for some added stress, I also had fraudulent charges on that card a few days after they returned the money to the building company. I'm still trying to get one charge removed from my account that I didn't make. It's like talking to a brick wall (that doesn't speak English very well).

Sounds like you are in the road to resolution !

I would so the same as your contemplating (weld it).

Keep charging forward my friend.

Welding should be just fine, we weld on building steel all the time to install the windload and deadload anchors for our oversize curtainwall and storefront openings. I wouldn't hesitate to "weld-r-up". Another option is to run a second, full height "king" stud next to the spliced ones. Yes, that means you will be cutting some insulation when you install it but at least it is not all of it.

Chad - I am glad this has come to an end for you. I am researching companies to provide my shop building right now - and figuring out who is reputable and who is not is not an easy task these days....

Thanks for the input. My only fear is that, if the building ever failed the manufacturer is currently on record saying it's built to meet codes. If I modify their design, I assume they could pass the buck and state I modified their design. I don't know, maybe I'm overthinking it. Part of me wants to weld it, part wants to just leave it be. My neighbor had one of these buildings, non-permitted with no engineering, with thinner gauge steel, and his pad was badly sloped. They used the same method to adjust for the out-of-level pad. The building did fine, until a neighbor complained & the county got involved. He had to tear it down, and put up a building with permits, engineering, etc. From my interactions with the company and the installer, I bet most are built this way and inspectors just don't notice.

I bought through Elephant Structures, but they were just the sales rep. I did some research on them, and found mixed reviews, but nothing terrible. When I looked up Interstate Steel, the reviews are mostly horror stories. If I had bought the 'diy' kit, and installed it myself it would have been fine. I know someone using Miracle Truss, but doing the install themselves.

I haven't given up (yet).

This has been an absolute battle to get this building put together.

I can't even begin to explain everything that has happened (or not happened) on this build.

I've spent time waiting for the correct size plans, waiting for weather to clear, waiting for the company to rebuild the building, fixing things contractors got wrong, waiting for contractors who never showed up, figuring out I got bad information from 'professionals', waiting for quotes from contractors who want to charge $2500+/day to work on my house, waiting 70 days for the electric company to tell me the quote they gave me 1 year ago was waaaaay off.

I really can't explain how frustrating this has been. I haven't really felt like posting up my snail's pace progress. I would have had more posts about what went wrong than right.

In the end, I've ended up doing almost most everything myself. I unexpectedly ended up plumbing my whole home to replace my range, water heater, and dryer with gas (see electric company's mis-quote above).

I've honestly struggled to stay motivated on this. But here it is. I have a little electrical left, and to run the vent for the unit heater. Then I can call in the electric and mechanical inspections. Then insulate, install & paint the OSB walls, and install outlets & switches. I'd like to deal with some surface cracking on the concrete pad (could/should have been avoided), and flash around the base of the building (lazy concrete guy wouldn't make the pad the way the building manufacturer recommended), before I move in. Did I mention the concrete guy wouldn't pour around my pull pots, then put the relief cuts right where my pull pots were planned?

Someday I might actually get to work on a Bronco.

Howdy Gunni

Glad you stuck to it. Looks like it turned out great !

Rox Crusher wrote:Howdy Gunni

Glad you stuck to it. Looks like it turned out great !

Thanks Jeff. I can't wait to get it up and running.

I'm still really sorry you had to endure all this. I hope you can get the last things wrapped and start enjoying this shop!!

Passed rough electrical and mechanical (heater vent) today. Ordered insulation, should be here in 2 weeks +/-.

While I'm waiting for the insulation I'll flash around the building base, and start installing lighting, switches, and outlets, and make final connections to fire up the heater.

Hopefully I've turned a corner and things will start moving a little faster.

Hope so too bro!! I hate that this has been such a struggle!

Thanks. I never expected this. After my marathon remodel in Gunnison, it's honestly the last thing I wanted to be doing.

Chad

What type of heater are you going with ?

IΓÇÖm planning to add gas fired radiant tube style this winter.

That's the kind my dad put in his diesel repair shop. Warms objects not the air right?

Rox Crusher wrote:Chad

What type of heater are you going with ?

IΓÇÖm planning to add gas fired radiant tube style this winter.

I did the same Big Maxx 80,000btu unit heater I did in Gunnison. It's probably overkill here. This building really heats up when the sun hits it. I'm sure adding insulation will change that. It's the opposite of my garage in Gunnison. It's walls were stacked railroad ties that never warmed up. The temp hovered around 10* in that garage. It would be cold in that garage well into June.

The first body shop I worked at had the radiant tube heaters. Radiant heaters heat objects, not air so they do feel different than convection heaters. They were very nice. I remember looking at them for my garage years ago. I think I remember they needed quite a bit of clearance between the heater and the ceiling, so make sure you check the specs before buying. I'm sure they vary between manufacturers.